How long to see results?

Kevin Kaeating · 04-11-2006, 06:20 PM

im wondering ive just started this program last week and im wondering how long it will take to see a change in bf im at about 15% right now and have a terrible stomach. I eat about 6 meals or more a day and max out protein intake at about 40grams and 50 to 60 of carbs, i also take udo's special blend oil(great stuff). im trying the ME black box method , ive already noticed the muscles in my shoulders becoming alittle bit denser, not bigger but harder. im hoping to fix this cottage cheese stomach by june. i am 5'11 200lbs 15% bf....goals: 200lbs 5% bf

how long did take for advanced memebers to see results do you all remember?

Garrett Smith · 04-11-2006, 08:05 PM

Kevin,
I'm assuming you're pushing most of that protein down in the form of whey. If your body doesn't tolerate dairy well, you won't get very far. Dairy is meant to make calves into cows, thus it is almost too good at creating mass (too often fat) of any sort, especially in species it wasn't intended for.

You're likely way over the caloric and macronutrient intake needed to maintain 190# of lean body mass (200# minus 5% BF). I'm at 177# and 5%, I'm taking in *max* 140g of protein a day and maintaining just fine.

Grains need to disappear from the diet for max fat loss, also to help reduce the lower ab "pooch" caused by GI inflammation.

Exercise is a huge part of the equation, which you are apparently pursuing diligently. Now you may want to change your dietary approach--you sound like you're on the "I'm scared to death of losing any mass" diet. I know, I've been there. That was back when I couldn't break 15% bodyfat either. Change of approach, change of physique. Trust the board, the advice given here has changed so many in such short periods of time...

The next book I'd advise you to purchase is "Mastering the Zone". After measuring your bodyfat and lean body mass (there's a great digital caliper and myotape combo for sale around $30 on Bodybuilding.com for this purpose), then you can figure out what protein level (and thus carb and fat levels) you need to maintain the 200# and 5% you are after. Start eating those amounts. Your exercise and metabolism will take care of the rest.

Don't throw out the Zone because you've thought it was a "weight loss" diet and that's all. This is exactly what you are looking for.

Kevin Kaeating · 04-11-2006, 09:30 PM

ok i (I) found your old link and just bought it off amazon.com(.) i(I) hope it helps(.) i(I) got it the whole zone collection used for 0.79 cents lol(.) not including shipping. this will be my breakthrough i(I) think, thanks a million doc.

Peter Queen · 04-12-2006, 08:22 AM

Kevin:
"Patience is a virtue!" You already have the dedication and motivation. You'll get there before you know it.

Scott Kustes · 04-12-2006, 02:30 PM

Kevin, what's up with the i(I) thing?

Charlie Jackson · 04-12-2006, 05:58 PM

Dairy is meant to make calves into cows, thus it is almost too good at creating mass (too often fat) of any sort, especially in species it wasn't intended for.

Actually it is "meant" and "intended" for human consumption. That's why it is sold in the dairy section and not the pet section of the grocery store.

Tom Brose · 04-13-2006, 05:00 AM

Kevin, one issue I see is that you want to drop to 5% BF, but remain at 200 lbs. That means adding 20 Lbs of muscle, while burning the fat off. Perhaps a little unrealistic. From your other post, I know you want to keep the size up, but it doesnt sound like your frame will carry that much mass naturally.

Aidan O Brien · 04-13-2006, 05:19 AM

"Actually it is "meant" and "intended" for human consumption. That's why it is sold in the dairy section and not the pet section of the grocery store."

Yeah , but simply because we put it there. In fairness, we are the only animal to drink milk from outside our species on a daily basis, and the only animal to drink milk outside of childhood.

Besides, not only do the process that milk goes through severly drop it's vitamins etc, but even the cows that it's coming from are somewhat questionable!

To be honest, i never throught i would give up dairy, i just didn't see it happening. 2 months ago i did and i have honestly never felt so good!}

Jeanette Lotz · 04-13-2006, 07:01 AM

Aidan,

I am in the process of giving up dairy as well. Are you finding it hard? My hardest thing right now is giving up cheese. I don't eat a lot of it, but I do like to occasionally sprinkle it on things.

Aidan O Brien · 04-13-2006, 07:18 AM

Hey Jeanette!

I thought it would be hard as well, but it was actually really easy. It's not like i was giving up something that would cause a certain hormonal response that my body would miss! In my mind this was key!

That said, i found some great alternatives to things that i used to use dairy as. I also found that normally dairy went hand in hand with other things that i should not have been eating, so the removal of one led to the removal of the other!

All in all it will be fine, the only thing i suggest you do is bring something IN to your diet to replace the diary items you drop, this way you are not limiting your diet and having it get old and stale, your actually expanding it and trying new things.

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04-11-2006, 06:20 PM	#1
Kevin Kaeating Member Profile: Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: edmonton ab Posts: 110	im wondering ive just started this program last week and im wondering how long it will take to see a change in bf im at about 15% right now and have a terrible stomach. I eat about 6 meals or more a day and max out protein intake at about 40grams and 50 to 60 of carbs, i also take udo's special blend oil(great stuff). im trying the ME black box method , ive already noticed the muscles in my shoulders becoming alittle bit denser, not bigger but harder. im hoping to fix this cottage cheese stomach by june. i am 5'11 200lbs 15% bf....goals: 200lbs 5% bf how long did take for advanced memebers to see results do you all remember?

04-11-2006, 08:05 PM	#2
Garrett Smith Member Profile: Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Tucson AZ Posts: 2,264	Kevin, I'm assuming you're pushing most of that protein down in the form of whey. If your body doesn't tolerate dairy well, you won't get very far. Dairy is meant to make calves into cows, thus it is almost too good at creating mass (too often fat) of any sort, especially in species it wasn't intended for. You're likely way over the caloric and macronutrient intake needed to maintain 190# of lean body mass (200# minus 5% BF). I'm at 177# and 5%, I'm taking in max 140g of protein a day and maintaining just fine. Grains need to disappear from the diet for max fat loss, also to help reduce the lower ab "pooch" caused by GI inflammation. Exercise is a huge part of the equation, which you are apparently pursuing diligently. Now you may want to change your dietary approach--you sound like you're on the "I'm scared to death of losing any mass" diet. I know, I've been there. That was back when I couldn't break 15% bodyfat either. Change of approach, change of physique. Trust the board, the advice given here has changed so many in such short periods of time... The next book I'd advise you to purchase is "Mastering the Zone". After measuring your bodyfat and lean body mass (there's a great digital caliper and myotape combo for sale around $30 on Bodybuilding.com for this purpose), then you can figure out what protein level (and thus carb and fat levels) you need to maintain the 200# and 5% you are after. Start eating those amounts. Your exercise and metabolism will take care of the rest. Don't throw out the Zone because you've thought it was a "weight loss" diet and that's all. This is exactly what you are looking for.

04-11-2006, 09:30 PM	#3
Kevin Kaeating Member Profile: Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: edmonton ab Posts: 110	ok i (I) found your old link and just bought it off amazon.com(.) i(I) hope it helps(.) i(I) got it the whole zone collection used for 0.79 cents lol(.) not including shipping. this will be my breakthrough i(I) think, thanks a million doc.

04-12-2006, 08:22 AM	#4
Peter Queen Member Profile: Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Dousman WI Posts: 1,567	Kevin: "Patience is a virtue!" You already have the dedication and motivation. You'll get there before you know it.

04-12-2006, 02:30 PM	#5
Scott Kustes Member Profile: Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Louisville KY Posts: 1,258	Kevin, what's up with the i(I) thing?

04-12-2006, 05:58 PM	#6
Charlie Jackson Banned Profile: Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Santa Carlos New Mexico Posts: 204	Dairy is meant to make calves into cows, thus it is almost too good at creating mass (too often fat) of any sort, especially in species it wasn't intended for. Actually it is "meant" and "intended" for human consumption. That's why it is sold in the dairy section and not the pet section of the grocery store.

04-13-2006, 05:00 AM	#7
Tom Brose Affiliate Profile: Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Washington DC Posts: 801	Kevin, one issue I see is that you want to drop to 5% BF, but remain at 200 lbs. That means adding 20 Lbs of muscle, while burning the fat off. Perhaps a little unrealistic. From your other post, I know you want to keep the size up, but it doesnt sound like your frame will carry that much mass naturally.

04-13-2006, 05:19 AM	#8
Aidan O Brien Member Profile: Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Dublin Dublin Posts: 87	"Actually it is "meant" and "intended" for human consumption. That's why it is sold in the dairy section and not the pet section of the grocery store." Yeah , but simply because we put it there. In fairness, we are the only animal to drink milk from outside our species on a daily basis, and the only animal to drink milk outside of childhood. Besides, not only do the process that milk goes through severly drop it's vitamins etc, but even the cows that it's coming from are somewhat questionable! To be honest, i never throught i would give up dairy, i just didn't see it happening. 2 months ago i did and i have honestly never felt so good!}

04-13-2006, 07:01 AM	#9
Jeanette Lotz Member Profile: Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Ardmore PA Posts: 28	Aidan, I am in the process of giving up dairy as well. Are you finding it hard? My hardest thing right now is giving up cheese. I don't eat a lot of it, but I do like to occasionally sprinkle it on things.

04-13-2006, 07:18 AM	#10
Aidan O Brien Member Profile: Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Dublin Dublin Posts: 87	Hey Jeanette! I thought it would be hard as well, but it was actually really easy. It's not like i was giving up something that would cause a certain hormonal response that my body would miss! In my mind this was key! That said, i found some great alternatives to things that i used to use dairy as. I also found that normally dairy went hand in hand with other things that i should not have been eating, so the removal of one led to the removal of the other! All in all it will be fine, the only thing i suggest you do is bring something IN to your diet to replace the diary items you drop, this way you are not limiting your diet and having it get old and stale, your actually expanding it and trying new things.