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Old 10-26-2012, 09:48 AM   #41
Donald Lee
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Re: Can't a cheat meal kill most of your results?

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Originally Posted by Adam Fisk View Post
I honestly don't know about that. Come Monday I will do the "jiggle" test and can physically notice a change from Friday. Also, I feel more "fat" carry over my waist when I am in a seated position. I may not be well versed with the term bloated but to me it really seems like body fat.
Fat cells may also take up water and make you feel fat.

Here's what Lyle speculated on the topic:

Quote:
Ok, finally stickying this stupid post with some very minor modifications.

It's something I've mentioned over the years, an assertion that my exercise physiology professor had made wrt: fat loss.

Note that under normal conditions, fat cells contain ~90% triglycerides and ~10% other stuff where other stuff includes some water, the cellular machinery that makes all the stuff that fat cells make and a couple of other things that I'm forgetting right now. Basically, fat cells do not normally contain much water.

He told us that, after triglycerides were removed from the cell, that the fat cells refilled with water in the short-term, eventually the body dropped that water and the fat loss 'became evident' (a goofy way for me to try to describe when the fat loss actually shows up on calipers, one of those dumb Tanita scales, or visually).

If nothing else, this gives a plausible mechanism for the non-linear fat loss that is so often seen. Folks will do everything right for weeks with no results. then overnight, something happens and the scale drops a bunch. Many diet newsgroups and forums refer to this as a 'whoosh' which often follows a stall.

A couple of empirical data points in support of this: people who use tanita scales have often reported that it will tell them that their BF has gone up right before a 'whoosh' occurs and a big drop. This suggests something goofy is going on with water balance.

Another is that fat often gets squishy (suggesting a change in what's in there) prior to a drop in skinfolds/ improvement in appearance.

I looked for research on the topic for a decade to no success. I made up my own plausible mechanism having to do with glycerol levels in the fat cell (glycerol is hydrophilic); if fatty acids were being lost at a greater proportion than glycerol, this mght explain how water is attracted into the fat cell. Except that, usually, glycerol and fatty acid are released in about the proportion you'd expect (3:1 FFA:glycerol).

edit: For what very little it's worth, Colgan mentions something similar in OPtimum Sports Nutrition, something about the body 'tracking' glycerol to keep track of fat stores. It's possible that the research on this is just pre-medline. Or he and my teacher just pulled it out of the old I need to read the rules post.I need to read the rules post.I need to read the rules post..

A couple of years back, a paper came out showing an increase in water content of visceral fat with dieting. First semi-direct data I've seen. I don't recall the mechanism being mentioned but I may not have ever read the full paper.

I keep meaning to look into what happens to water balance hormones with dieting, but my laziness is just truly profound.

Edit: Of course, if I suppose if I ever got off my I need to read the rules post.I need to read the rules post.I need to read the rules post. and figured out what was causing it, I could try to figure out how to fix it. But, see: profound laziness.... It's probably just a matter of drinking a I need to read the rules post.I need to read the rules post.I need to read the rules post.I need to read the rules post.ton of water so that your body will quit being weird and holding onto what's in the system.

As a weird addendum: many folks have noticed that a refeed can often trigger a 'whoosh'. Is this somehow affecting water balance (this would make sense given the relationships of carbs and water, carbs tend to pull water into the muscle cells)? Is it that the increase in leptin that accompanies refeeds does something nifty? I have no answers but it's something some have noticed/mentioned, including myself. You'll have someone who dieted hard for a week or two and nothing appears to be happening. Then they'll go 'I need to read the rules post.I need to read the rules post.I need to read the rules post.I need to read the rules post. it' and have a big cheat/meal or short refeed. And wake up 4 lbs lighter with a visual difference.
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Old 10-26-2012, 11:22 AM   #42
Adam Fisk
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Re: Can't a cheat meal kill most of your results?

That is very interesting, Donald.

Where did you pull that from? It definitely makes sense and sounds logical.

Based off what I just read here is my plan; 2 weeks ok norm diet Monday-Saturday, drink slightly more water (currently at a little under half body weight in oz's), load up on carbs Sunday night (pasta mainly with a reasonable amount of sause (homemade).

From there I will adjust based off my results to either increase/decrease my food intake throughout Sunday for an additional 2 weeks.

I am breaking it down to 2 sets of 2 weeks because by the end of all of this it will be Thanksgiving and, well...I think I'll be losing some consitancy in my results after that massacre.
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Old 10-26-2012, 01:42 PM   #43
Donald Lee
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Re: Can't a cheat meal kill most of your results?

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Originally Posted by Adam Fisk View Post
That is very interesting, Donald.

Where did you pull that from? It definitely makes sense and sounds logical.

Based off what I just read here is my plan; 2 weeks ok norm diet Monday-Saturday, drink slightly more water (currently at a little under half body weight in oz's), load up on carbs Sunday night (pasta mainly with a reasonable amount of sause (homemade).

From there I will adjust based off my results to either increase/decrease my food intake throughout Sunday for an additional 2 weeks.

I am breaking it down to 2 sets of 2 weeks because by the end of all of this it will be Thanksgiving and, well...I think I'll be losing some consitancy in my results after that massacre.
It's a sticky on the BodyRecomposition forum.

About what body fat percentage are you, and how long have you been dieting and at how much of a deficit?
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Old 10-26-2012, 03:12 PM   #44
Adam Fisk
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Re: Can't a cheat meal kill most of your results?

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Originally Posted by Donald Lee View Post
It's a sticky on the BodyRecomposition forum.

About what body fat percentage are you, and how long have you been dieting and at how much of a deficit?
I honestly don't know. I would say 13-15 definitely no more than 15. I was measured for 17 at one point in high school and I know exactly what that was like.

I have been dieting like this for a few months now and while I am eating clean I'd say I have about a 200 cal deficit and that might be generous. I am not crazy about counting calories but I am very concious of my intake.

Sorry for hijacking btw. Hope my discussion helps others.
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Old 10-26-2012, 03:29 PM   #45
Donald Lee
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Re: Can't a cheat meal kill most of your results?

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Originally Posted by Adam Fisk View Post
I honestly don't know. I would say 13-15 definitely no more than 15. I was measured for 17 at one point in high school and I know exactly what that was like.

I have been dieting like this for a few months now and while I am eating clean I'd say I have about a 200 cal deficit and that might be generous. I am not crazy about counting calories but I am very concious of my intake.

Sorry for hijacking btw. Hope my discussion helps others.
With that small of a deficit, I'd limit your every 2 weeks refeed to 5 hours or less or to one large meal plus a snack or something.
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