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Old 10-25-2012, 02:40 PM   #31
Eric Montgomery
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Re: Can't a cheat meal kill most of your results?

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Originally Posted by Brian Michaelson View Post
What if you cheat everyday but numbers and performance are increasing? Strange..
Most likely answers--you were undereating before, or you're still in a novice stage in terms of your potential for quick gains.
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Old 10-25-2012, 02:58 PM   #32
Adam Fisk
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Re: Can't a cheat meal kill most of your results?

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Your body can temporarily upregulate its glycogen stores (glycogen supercompensation). This is something that endurance athletes sometimes attempt to do by low-carbing for a period and then going high-carb. I don't think it has panned out to be helpful for performance in practice.

Also, you have to think about the cheat/refeed or whatever as being compared to a maintenance sized meal and not a diet sized meal. That's partially where the fear of fat gain comes in, because you're not used to eating a normal sized meal and because you're hungry and you feel like you're gorging. Funny enough, the primary benefit of a cheat or free meal is psychological and not physiological. You're not eating enough or long enough to upregulate your metabolism.

A refeed, on the other hand, will upregulate your metabolism. It'll also lower your stress levels from dieting, which'll allow you to drop the water weight that may have been masking the fat loss.

So you have two areas working in your favor with a refeed. Carb intake going into glycogen stores, and high carb intake increasing leptin levels which increases your metabolic rate.

With respects to what day you refeed or cheat on, it works either way. It's ideal to do a refeed or cheat on a workout day, so that maybe some of the extra calories can go toward rebuilding muscle and restoring glycogen levels and so that you can eat a few hundred more calories if you want. You can even go to the gym and do circuits of pump work to use up some glycogen before you cheat or refeed.

If you're only doing one meal off your diet, I'd recommend it be dinner, so it doesn't affect your appetite for the rest of the day. You can also do something like a 5-hr refeed in the evening, if you don't plan on doing an all-day refeed.

Cheat/free meals and refeeds are not the devil, and they can HELP your dieting. There is no glory or benefit in spacing out your cheat/free meals out less frequently.

Here are some general guidelines for males:

- If you're over 20% BF, you probably don't need a refeed. You can do it maybe once a month. You can have a 1-2 free meals a week.
- If you're 15-20% BF, you should refeed 1x per week for up to a 5 hr period or just do a light refeed day. You can have 1 free meal/week, but it's optional.
- If you're 10/13-15% BF, you should refeed 1 full day/week. You should probably have 1 free meal/week if you're feeling really hungry.
- If you're less than 10/13% BF, you should refeed 1-2 full days/week. If you do 2 days, this can either be back-to-back or spaced across the week. If you do 2 full days of refeeding, drop all free meals.

The 10/13 is because that tends to be the range where people start really having trouble dieting. For some it'll start in the higher range, and for others in the lower range.

Hope some of that helps. I can't really give recommendations on how much carbs to eat on a refeed, because I always went by feel (never much of a calorie counter). You want to keep protein intake at moderate to moderately high levels on a refeed though.
Thank you for the very descriptive reply.

I have kind of been doing this without realizing it but I definitely need to tune it up. I eat basically paleo with the exception of some milk and peanut butter. Average around 2300-2500 cals a day. I do not know my body comp but I would say it is sub 15. On Saturday & Sunday I have been know to go out on full out binges with no regulation. Although I try to stay away from heavily processed foods. I definitely notice an increase in body fat come Monday, but I do feel I have an ample amount of energy for a weeks worth of solid strength and conditioning.

I guess I will have to play around with a "refeed" type meal where I am not binging but controlling my macros wihtout adding the extra body fat. Oy

Last edited by Adam Fisk; 10-25-2012 at 03:01 PM..
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Old 10-25-2012, 04:19 PM   #33
Chris Mason
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Re: Can't a cheat meal kill most of your results?

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Originally Posted by Adam Fisk View Post
This is how I always looked at it. My question is tho lets say your cheat consists of 1200 calories, wouldn't your body store all those excess cals as fat? How do those calories get utilized?

Also, do you guys cheat on rest days or active days?
No, it doesn't work that way. The body can be highly adaptive in the short term. If you have been on a low cal diet and training hard the body will work overtime to fill all glycogen stores and then some as just one example.
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Old 10-25-2012, 04:22 PM   #34
Chris Mason
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Re: Can't a cheat meal kill most of your results?

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Originally Posted by Adam Fisk View Post
Thank you for the very descriptive reply.

I have kind of been doing this without realizing it but I definitely need to tune it up. I eat basically paleo with the exception of some milk and peanut butter. Average around 2300-2500 cals a day. I do not know my body comp but I would say it is sub 15. On Saturday & Sunday I have been know to go out on full out binges with no regulation. Although I try to stay away from heavily processed foods. I definitely notice an increase in body fat come Monday, but I do feel I have an ample amount of energy for a weeks worth of solid strength and conditioning.

I guess I will have to play around with a "refeed" type meal where I am not binging but controlling my macros wihtout adding the extra body fat. Oy
See, you're wrong, your body simply won't metabolize significant body fat that quickly. You are probably just experiencing some bloating from excess sodium intake on your cheat days and mistaking that blurring of definition etc. as a gain in body fat.
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Old 10-25-2012, 06:08 PM   #35
Donald Lee
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Re: Can't a cheat meal kill most of your results?

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Originally Posted by Chris Mason View Post
See, you're wrong, your body simply won't metabolize significant body fat that quickly. You are probably just experiencing some bloating from excess sodium intake on your cheat days and mistaking that blurring of definition etc. as a gain in body fat.
Yeah, eating the occasional pizza from a local place used to bloat me up badly the next day.

Adam, you just have to remember that a refeed is supposed to be a carb-up and not a generalized eating fest. I wrote some general guidelines earlier about how much fat you can eat, depending on the length and extent of the refeed.
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Old 10-25-2012, 06:50 PM   #36
Chris Mason
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Re: Can't a cheat meal kill most of your results?

I do want to clarify one point, my cheat day was the WHOLE day. I ate everything and anything. I would literally eat until I felt sick... Lol, then it was back to my acetic diet the following day. It never did anything but accelerate my results.
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Old 10-25-2012, 08:54 PM   #37
Zowie Hanssen
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Re: Can't a cheat meal kill most of your results?

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I do want to clarify one point, my cheat day was the WHOLE day. I ate everything and anything. I would literally eat until I felt sick... Lol, then it was back to my acetic diet the following day. It never did anything but accelerate my results.
Acetic diet, in general terms what does this consist of? never heard the term...
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Old 10-25-2012, 10:16 PM   #38
Chris Mason
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Re: Can't a cheat meal kill most of your results?

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Acetic diet, in general terms what does this consist of? never heard the term...
Just another word for spartan... Not a special diet. What I was trying to say was that I was following a low calorie fat loss diet and right after the cheat day I went back to it.
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Old 10-26-2012, 04:55 AM   #39
Adam Fisk
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Re: Can't a cheat meal kill most of your results?

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Originally Posted by Chris Mason View Post
See, you're wrong, your body simply won't metabolize significant body fat that quickly. You are probably just experiencing some bloating from excess sodium intake on your cheat days and mistaking that blurring of definition etc. as a gain in body fat.
I honestly don't know about that. Come Monday I will do the "jiggle" test and can physically notice a change from Friday. Also, I feel more "fat" carry over my waist when I am in a seated position. I may not be well versed with the term bloated but to me it really seems like body fat.

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Originally Posted by Donald Lee View Post
Yeah, eating the occasional pizza from a local place used to bloat me up badly the next day.

Adam, you just have to remember that a refeed is supposed to be a carb-up and not a generalized eating fest. I wrote some general guidelines earlier about how much fat you can eat, depending on the length and extent of the refeed.
My problem is, I think, that I have no self control. I believe that come Saturday my mind is subconsciously telling my body to not give a f*** and eat everything in sight. I have and know I can stay on track during the weekends but I definitely want to give the re-feed a try. I know I need the extra energy come Monday but of course don't want to sacrifice the extra body fat.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Mason View Post
I do want to clarify one point, my cheat day was the WHOLE day. I ate everything and anything. I would literally eat until I felt sick... Lol, then it was back to my acetic diet the following day. It never did anything but accelerate my results.
See, that is how I have been. There have been times where I have gotten sick but most of the time I overeat I don't really get that same "fullness". Maybe it is because I am doing this for two days? I am probably bloated on Sunday then because I continue to eat ridiculous amounts I will store more body fat. I do sometimes train on the weekends, depending on how I feel, but that wouldn't compensate for all the excess calories.

Thanks for all the input guys. I know I can get my body composition to where I would like it if I put a little more want into my weekends but, I do not want performance decreases because of my lack of energy.

P.S. Chris, I will be taking advantage of the Halloween sale today

Last edited by Adam Fisk; 10-26-2012 at 04:57 AM..
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Old 10-26-2012, 06:46 AM   #40
John C Corona
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Re: Can't a cheat meal kill most of your results?

I find it facinating that there is some science behind this food debauchery. Last night I had a huge slice of pizza, 'bout 8 chicken wings, spinach & carrots. 30 minutes later 2 glasses of whole milk with a huge homeade choclate chip cookie. I woke up, eliminated, and look 100 times skinnier than I've been all week leading up to this. So friggin wierd.

Thanks to all of yall that have this cheat meal knowledge, I just do it to keep me sane.
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