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Old 04-05-2004, 07:30 PM   #1
Roy
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I read about carbs and fats in the same meal being lipogenic, but then we have the zone. Particularly the athletes zone, where fats and carbs are together in every meal! Will someone please shed some light on this subject?

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Roy
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Old 04-05-2004, 11:05 PM   #2
Alexander Karatis
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Fats are considered lipogenic when consumed at a time with elevated insulin levels. Since carbs raise insulin the most, fat + carbs = bad.
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Old 04-06-2004, 01:42 AM   #3
Paul Kayley
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I also try to seperate fats and carbs as much as possible. Fats consumed at other times, when insulin should be at base levels, are more likely to be used for metabolic requirements and growth.
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Old 04-06-2004, 01:45 AM   #4
Jan de Jong
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I disagree with the the statement that carbs and fat together are bad. Like Roy says the zone is based on this concept and succesfully used by a lot of crossfitters. I think you should narrow it down to the type and amount of carbs consumed together with fat. Moderate amounts of low GI carbs(veggies, some fruits) and fat is good. High GI carbs, what ever the amount and fat is bad.

Just my 02 cents.
Jan.
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Old 04-06-2004, 06:00 AM   #5
Roy
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The zone is what makes "fat+carbs=bad" contradictory, especially to those who are on the zone and claim to "avoid" combining the two. Is quantity ever a consideration anymore?


Cheers

Roy
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Old 04-06-2004, 07:23 AM   #6
Ryan Atkins
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Hi Roy,

With regards to your last question, I think it's mentioned in at least one of Dr. Sear's books (Anti-Aging Zone, maybe?) that if you follow the zone guidelines, you'll fall within the parameters of a CRAN diet anyway.

Hope this helps,

Ryan
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Old 04-06-2004, 02:29 PM   #7
Robert Wolf
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Roy-

It is not a straight forward thing to be sure. In the athletes zone the amount of carbs is very moderate and for it to work they need to be of a low GI. So long as the meal sizes are small (which they are) one tends to fly under the insulin radar.

The folks advocating cyclic low carb approaches make the fat/carb combo sound like death itself...and they are right in a way. Part of the issue is that one is able to eat far more of a fat carb combo than either one individually. Swigging olive oil or gnawing on a stick of butter is a tough sell for most people. Put that butter on some French bread or the olive oil over some pasta with garlic...sheesh, getting hungry here!

It astonishes me the simple insight Coach gave us in his "World Class Fitness in 100 words". No matter what protocol you follow whether it is Zone, CLC, warrior or whatever the recommendation of meat, veggies, some fruit, little starch and no sugar will provide one 95% of ANY possible benefit. From there it seems reasonable to shift a bit of carbs to post work out and to perhaps reduce carbs prior to bed. It is not rocket science but it is all we likely need.
Robb
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Old 04-06-2004, 02:50 PM   #8
Paul Kayley
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Nice post Robb. My problem is that I am in a position where refueling must take priority over keeping lean. I look forward to the day when I can change sports and switch my concentration a bit.
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Old 04-06-2004, 03:10 PM   #9
Roy
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This would all be a lot easier if I didnt work out before bed, but my martial arts class is 7:30pm-8:30pm, and after intense 45 minute sparring sessions, it is unwise(for me anyway) to not carb up a little afterward(usually a banana) on top of that, I have to get up at 6:00am each morning to make a living.

Im pondering at eating fat/protein meals as the first two and carb/protein meals as the last three, since my last half of the day is when I get real active.

If one works out before bed, and has carbs in the post meal about 45 minutes to an hour and a half before bed, how would this effect recovery and hormones?

Cheers

Roy
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Old 04-06-2004, 05:14 PM   #10
Jay Edvardz
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I am assuming the resulting insulin spike would hinder GH output during sleep. Just a thought.

-Jay
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