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Old 03-19-2013, 10:40 AM   #571
Dan Silva
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Re: 2013 Open, Regionals and Games Thread

I think that crossfit needs to make something good come out of this. I dont know if Crossfit HQ reads this board but I have a suggestion.

If you are an athlete that wants to compete at regionals - at least 3 of your WODs must have a video tape associated with the workout. This will keep judges from having to weed through 600,000 videos. Then if HQ has any question on a particular athletes number - review their videos.
I think the athletes who have a shot at regionals know who they are. Or if after the first two weeks you look like you are someone who will compete - you tape your last 3 wods.

Problem solved. If the reps aren't up to standard than they are disqualified. Disqualifying someone based on a video that didn't even need to be taken isn't fair in my opinion.

Personally, I think this is an athlete that can compete at regionals. The video tape wasn't his even though he owned up to that workout. It's a shame that there are athletes who will be (for random example) 47th in the region that have similar standards but you'll never know until regionals because they performed at an affiliate. There is a hole in the open format - fix the hole. The only thing that is being solved at this point is that athletes will make sure that affiliates don't tape or post their wods.

Hopefully Crossfit HQ tries to prevent a fire from happening again instead of just putting out little fires every time one arises.
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Old 03-19-2013, 10:55 AM   #572
Desmond Pegrum
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Re: 2013 Open, Regionals and Games Thread

I think historically, the goodwill nature of the "crossfit community" has almost been like a fraternity.

You would always help a fellow frat brother 'crossfitter'
You would never con a fellow frat brother 'crossfitter'


etc

But as Crossfit grows and more money gets into the sport, you will find more 'bad apples' in the sport and there will be cases of intentional fraud


But HQ has to look at the whole thing. The concept of the Open is awesome. I mean potentially any man or woman can come straight off the street and get right through and win the Crossfit Open. Not many other sports have that kind of free open pathway to the top.

But no other elite sport has friends judging friends with the only witnesses being other friends.

I think there would have been thousands of cases of "i could have docked you a few reps mate, but i didn't so you owe me a beer"

And as the leaderboard shows, every rep counts. I am definitely not convinced that all of the ladies above Annie are legit, hell Annie was borderline legit herself.

Last edited by Desmond Pegrum; 03-19-2013 at 10:57 AM..
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Old 03-19-2013, 11:48 AM   #573
Charles Golden
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Re: 2013 Open, Regionals and Games Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan Silva View Post
I think that crossfit needs to make something good come out of this. I dont know if Crossfit HQ reads this board but I have a suggestion.

If you are an athlete that wants to compete at regionals - at least 3 of your WODs must have a video tape associated with the workout. This will keep judges from having to weed through 600,000 videos. Then if HQ has any question on a particular athletes number - review their videos.
I think the athletes who have a shot at regionals know who they are. Or if after the first two weeks you look like you are someone who will compete - you tape your last 3 wods.

Problem solved. If the reps aren't up to standard than they are disqualified. Disqualifying someone based on a video that didn't even need to be taken isn't fair in my opinion.

Personally, I think this is an athlete that can compete at regionals. The video tape wasn't his even though he owned up to that workout. It's a shame that there are athletes who will be (for random example) 47th in the region that have similar standards but you'll never know until regionals because they performed at an affiliate. There is a hole in the open format - fix the hole. The only thing that is being solved at this point is that athletes will make sure that affiliates don't tape or post their wods.

Hopefully Crossfit HQ tries to prevent a fire from happening again instead of just putting out little fires every time one arises.
I said this in a different thread but to me the bigger problem lies in the Masters' division as opposed to the regular individual division because there isn't a true "proving ground" like Regionals. For Masters there is nothing to 'weed' out people who post junk scores during the Open. A crooked affiliate owner who's in the Masters comp can perform, judge and validate his own scores. That's a serious loophole....
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Old 03-19-2013, 11:49 AM   #574
Charles Golden
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Re: 2013 Open, Regionals and Games Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by Desmond Pegrum View Post
I think historically, the goodwill nature of the "crossfit community" has almost been like a fraternity.

You would always help a fellow frat brother 'crossfitter'
You would never con a fellow frat brother 'crossfitter'


etc

But as Crossfit grows and more money gets into the sport, you will find more 'bad apples' in the sport and there will be cases of intentional fraud


But HQ has to look at the whole thing. The concept of the Open is awesome. I mean potentially any man or woman can come straight off the street and get right through and win the Crossfit Open. Not many other sports have that kind of free open pathway to the top.

But no other elite sport has friends judging friends with the only witnesses being other friends.

I think there would have been thousands of cases of "i could have docked you a few reps mate, but i didn't so you owe me a beer"

And as the leaderboard shows, every rep counts. I am definitely not convinced that all of the ladies above Annie are legit, hell Annie was borderline legit herself.
Not to mention how many times, you judge for your buddy and then 10 minutes later he's judging yours. There has to be some, "hey maybe if I don't 'no rep' him he won't 'no rep' me."
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Old 03-19-2013, 11:52 AM   #575
Christopher Morris
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Re: 2013 Open, Regionals and Games Thread

I don't think required video submissions are the answer. Having good judges enforce standards is the source of the problem with Josh Golden. Maybe require athletes to go to a neighboring box for validation? This would be a problem for remote boxes, though.

Quote:
Originally Posted by John Holcombe View Post
On the box he was falling back on every rep. No control at the top
I see it being more of a violation that his hips and knees weren't open. See Sam Briggs' video (wfs). She clearly has better form per the standards. When she shows full extension and control at the top of the box, it's like she does a hop backwards with heels off the box. I had to look twice to see what she was doing because it's kind of unusual, but I think she's doing that to already set up for the next jump down. Similar to Josh Golden "falling off the box," but she shows better control.

We can debate his box jumps, sloppy as they are. There is no way his shoulder to overhead met standard. Not even close.
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Old 03-19-2013, 11:53 AM   #576
Nik Nichols
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Re: 2013 Open, Regionals and Games Thread

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Originally Posted by Charles Golden View Post
Not to mention how many times, you judge for your buddy and then 10 minutes later he's judging yours. There has to be some, "hey maybe if I don't 'no rep' him he won't 'no rep' me."
See, right there, that has come up and I told my buddy "I will not judge you.'' For that reason and if I no repped him he might get mad at me for it. Better to just step away from that whole thing.
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Old 03-19-2013, 12:00 PM   #577
Matthew Swartz
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Re: 2013 Open, Regionals and Games Thread

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Originally Posted by Nik Nichols View Post
See, right there, that has come up and I told my buddy "I will not judge you.'' For that reason and if I no repped him he might get mad at me for it. Better to just step away from that whole thing.
I don't know about you guys, but I grew out of cheating with my buddies around the 8th grade. If it's a dirty rep, I don't want it and I don't give it. Friend or not.
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Old 03-19-2013, 12:09 PM   #578
Shawn M Wilson
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Re: 2013 Open, Regionals and Games Thread

Last year I no repped a fellow coach 2xs during the burpee WoD (he went to regionals) and ppl at my gym looked at me and were like how could u no rep him?

Was like he missed the target. He made sure to not miss the target after the no reps. He wasn't mad at me, he appreciated the fact I held him to standards and he knew he got there on his own...

Friends no-rep friends when they deserve it
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Old 03-19-2013, 12:13 PM   #579
Joshua Foladare
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Re: 2013 Open, Regionals and Games Thread

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3SKKWBgRQUQ

Here is Scott Paltos's 13.2

Based on this performance, I have a hard time believing he got a legit 180 on 13.1
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Old 03-19-2013, 12:18 PM   #580
Mauricio Leal
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Re: 2013 Open, Regionals and Games Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan Silva View Post
If you are an athlete that wants to compete at regionals - at least 3 of your WODs must have a video tape associated with the workout. This will keep judges from having to weed through 600,000 videos. Then if HQ has any question on a particular athletes number - review their videos.
I think the athletes who have a shot at regionals know who they are. Or if after the first two weeks you look like you are someone who will compete - you tape your last 3 wods.

Problem solved. If the reps aren't up to standard than they are disqualified. Disqualifying someone based on a video that didn't even need to be taken isn't fair in my opinion.

Personally, I think this is an athlete that can compete at regionals. The video tape wasn't his even though he owned up to that workout. It's a shame that there are athletes who will be (for random example) 47th in the region that have similar standards but you'll never know until regionals because they performed at an affiliate. There is a hole in the open format - fix the hole. The only thing that is being solved at this point is that athletes will make sure that affiliates don't tape or post their wods.

Hopefully Crossfit HQ tries to prevent a fire from happening again instead of just putting out little fires every time one arises.
I think HQ has already demonstrated that they absolutely are about improving the Open/Games each year and learning from mistakes (oversights and unanticipated things), but there are many practical constraints on how much they can do to optimize the event for ALL participants. Too much control becomes onerous, too little and stuff like this can happen.

The problem with the proposed video requirement above is either you have to review a ton of videos as the Open unfolds (even with preliminary volunteer flagging) since there is no way of "knowing" who the Regional contenders are -- which there probably isn't the staff to do -- or wait until the scores settle by the 4th/5th week and then retroactively DQ those with bad reps, for which the athletes have no recourse.

My one idea would be to have a 6th winner-take-all workout just for the top 60-100 or so in each region, video-taped, Air Force style "buffet" WOD that covers a good range of potential movement faults. Top 48 or whatever clean performances go to Regionals. That's still a lot of videos to review, but with preliminary flagging could be manageable. Maybe ask for volunteer prelim reviewers from affiliate owners who don't have athletes in the mix? Of course, there would probably be drama just the same with some DQs. No perfect solutions.
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Last edited by Mauricio Leal; 03-19-2013 at 12:20 PM..
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