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Fitness Theory and Practice. CrossFit's rationale & foundations. Who is fit? What is fitness?

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Old 11-27-2014, 01:59 PM   #1
Daniel Templeman
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Metcon cancels effect of Heavy Day??

So we take turns programming at our box, and the coach whose turn it is now took exception to my adding a 3 minute burner at the end of a "Heavy Day" class I coached.

WoD was 15mins each for 5RM Backsquat 5RM Push Press, with nothing else programmed. We spend 25 minutes on a warm up and activation of glutes, back and shoulders especially, technique and PoP.

At the end I threw in 21,15,9 Wall Balls and Situps, ie 3-4 minute burner. On the basis the Wall Balls were a sort of DE squat (this group are beginners who still find and Rx WB heavy) and situp on the basis it had little to do with the muscles used in the WoD.

I was told in no uncertain terms that "adding metcon activities like the burner at the end, pretty much negate the [CNS] response the WOD is aimed at recruiting as a heavy day..." WTF?

I have researched this topic extensively online today and while there is a lot of debate about doing long slow cardio concurrently with strength, I cannot find a single person to support the view our athletes WoD was negated.

This guy reminds me constantly he did level 2, and even there in the chapter on heavy days I dont find any support for his bro-science. But please put me right if Im the one being a ....
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Old 11-27-2014, 09:01 PM   #2
Shawn M Wilson
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Re: Metcon cancels effect of Heavy Day??

Some believe a 3-5 minute metcon or burner at the end of a heavy lifting session is the best type of workout.

While wall balls would be a tough one after that workout it could be manageable. I might not do a wall ball one but something else should be fine.

Everyone has opinions. Just because they competed lvl 2 means nothing.
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Old 11-27-2014, 10:55 PM   #3
Blair Robert Lowe
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Re: Metcon cancels effect of Heavy Day??

Ehh, a little burner at the end of some strength work isn't the end of the world and helps to feel members feel that WOD effect.

Not the end of the world.
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Old 11-27-2014, 11:55 PM   #4
Daniel Templeman
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Re: Metcon cancels effect of Heavy Day??

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Originally Posted by Blair Robert Lowe View Post
Ehh, a little burner at the end of some strength work isn't the end of the world and helps to feel members feel that WOD effect.

Not the end of the world.
My thought exactly esp since we are rather conditioning oriented and I know for a fact members grumble if they go away without having gotten any.
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Old 11-27-2014, 11:58 PM   #5
Daniel Templeman
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Re: Metcon cancels effect of Heavy Day??

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Originally Posted by Shawn M Wilson View Post
Some believe a 3-5 minute metcon or burner at the end of a heavy lifting session is the best type of workout.

While wall balls would be a tough one after that workout it could be manageable. I might not do a wall ball one but something else should be fine.

Everyone has opinions. Just because they competed lvl 2 means nothing.
These folks are still learning to squat heavy, so most are still limited by technique rather than strength, my view was they probably had a lot left in the tank.

In fairness they could chose wall balls or burpees...
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Old 11-28-2014, 11:14 AM   #6
Chris Mason
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Re: Metcon cancels effect of Heavy Day??

The truth is you are eliciting opposite adaptations, so there could be some compromise of the strength work. To me, it is about the goal of the individual. If you want to be a powerlifter then probably skip it. If you want to be a CFer then I see no issue with it.
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Old 11-29-2014, 06:12 AM   #7
Daniel Templeman
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Re: Metcon cancels effect of Heavy Day??

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The truth is you are eliciting opposite adaptations, so there could be some compromise of the strength work. To me, it is about the goal of the individual. If you want to be a powerlifter then probably skip it. If you want to be a CFer then I see no issue with it.
But even then, most of the stuff I can find is about strength protocols with aerobic training. This seems to be termed "concurrent" training. There are mixed views about the scale if any of interference between the two. But no where can I find advice that one totally negates the other. Meanwhile my little burner was not exactly a slow aerobic piece...
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Old 11-29-2014, 07:02 AM   #8
Colin McLafferty
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Re: Metcon cancels effect of Heavy Day??

I don't think this has ever been argued seriously in athletic journals, so it's hard to find evidence flatly stating that this is wrong. But "negating" or "canceling" are definitely the wrong words.

If you're a pro powerlifter, there may be some negating effect since some of your resources are being devoted to conditioning rather than strength.

But canceling the effect on the CNS? That's just nonsense. If this were true, anyone doing Crossfit Football would be weak and last time I checked, most people get stronger on that program.

I find that inexperienced coaches are more prone to dogma and saying "NEVER EVER." Maybe that's the issue.
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Old 11-29-2014, 10:34 AM   #9
Daniel Templeman
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Re: Metcon cancels effect of Heavy Day??

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Originally Posted by Colin McLafferty View Post
dogma
is the absolute precise word, in this case generally attributed to the Chan's who led his level 2. Matt this, Cherie that

It would be funny if it wasnt a total PITA!
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Old 11-29-2014, 11:50 AM   #10
Jonathan Kinnick
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Re: Metcon cancels effect of Heavy Day??

Coach Glassman wrote in the Virtuosity Journal article, (wfs)

"There is plenty of time within an hour session to warm up, practice a basic movement or skill or pursue a new PR or max lift, discuss and critique the athletesí efforts, and then pound out a tight little couplet or triplet utilizing these skills or just play."

This seems in line with what you were doing. Might be a good article to show the other trainer to give him a different perspective.
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