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Old 04-02-2010, 12:59 PM   #11
Matt Payne
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Re: Style Suited For Army Infantry?

No Jamie. No Krav competitions . It is pretty much no holds barred street fighting..groin kicks, eye gouges, strikes to other vital areas. The system does include full contact sparring and drills that stop short of connecting hard to any vital areas...usually Also training includes fighting multiple attackers, weapons defenses...
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Old 04-03-2010, 05:09 AM   #12
David Meverden
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Re: Style Suited For Army Infantry?

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Originally Posted by Matt Payne View Post
No Jamie. No Krav competitions . It is pretty much no holds barred street fighting..groin kicks, eye gouges, strikes to other vital areas. The system does include full contact sparring and drills that stop short of connecting hard to any vital areas...usually Also training includes fighting multiple attackers, weapons defenses...
Jamie is probably skeptical of styles without competitions because there is no consistent way to gauge it's effectiveness, and no way to truly practice it regularly against other humans, which is a legitimate concern, but this is the price for training strikes that can cause permanent damage.

My sister took Krav Maga when she was working for the government and it all seemed pretty legit. Her gym would semi-regularly have the students conduct more-or-less boxing style sparring, but my impression was always that that was less for practicing striking and defense than it was for making sure people could continue to function and usefully defend themselves after getting punched in the face. Sometimes they would even do 2-on-1 or 3 person free for all to give people a small taste of trying to defend themselves against multiple assailants or having to pay attention to two potential attackers at once.
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Old 04-03-2010, 07:39 AM   #13
Donald Clarkson
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Re: Style Suited For Army Infantry?

I have spent a great deal of time in units that focused on combatives - I was rolling withthe Gracies before anyone ever conceived of the Army combatives program.

IMO, the most effective sytem I have encountered so far for combat is Tony Blauer's SPEAR. I am Level 1 certified and have trained in it several times and truly believe it should be the first thing Soldiers learn and then they should transition into Modern Army Combatives.

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Old 04-03-2010, 11:31 AM   #14
Matt Payne
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Re: Style Suited For Army Infantry?

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Jamie is probably skeptical of styles without competitions because there is no consistent way to gauge it's effectiveness, and no way to truly practice it regularly against other humans, which is a legitimate concern, but this is the price for training strikes that can cause permanent damage.

My sister took Krav Maga when she was working for the government and it all seemed pretty legit. Her gym would semi-regularly have the students conduct more-or-less boxing style sparring, but my impression was always that that was less for practicing striking and defense than it was for making sure people could continue to function and usefully defend themselves after getting punched in the face. Sometimes they would even do 2-on-1 or 3 person free for all to give people a small taste of trying to defend themselves against multiple assailants or having to pay attention to two potential attackers at once.
Well if unfamiliar it is fine to skeptical for sure. Competitions are just that....with different stresses. I guess I would defer to what is used in the IDF, U.S Air Marshal's, FBI and many Police Services world wide that use Krav Maga. Krav Maga has been proven effective in combat and real encounters etc.. The only REAL way to test I suppose is how you would react to a real situation, with unknowns present..which competitions would not prepare you for . The mind set for Krav Maga is also very different. I by no means think it is the only system out there but I would take it and Spear over any traditional martial art for the purposes mentioned.
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Old 04-03-2010, 06:59 PM   #15
Jakub Marciniec
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Re: Style Suited For Army Infantry?

There are no set comps in KM because there are no rules, also KM concepts are not to actually stand and fight but to survive, meaning get away at the same time (military and VIP is slightly different).

HOWEVER there is a lot of sparing in KM especially when you get up in the grades, like mentioned we do a lot of 2V1 + attacks including things with knives, bats/sticks and guns.

KM is not so much a system but a concept. If you have a pen handy and get attacked then stab them with it! If you have a pile of dirt handy throw it in there face, this is what i mean by no rules. And although you are taught 'how to fight' it is developing and training these concepts and attitudes which is actually what KM is.

CrossFit is a sport within it self but not a traditional one like all the others, KM is a way of fighting withing itself but not a traditional way like others. What do these two have in common, they are both practical in the real world
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Old 04-03-2010, 08:37 PM   #16
Josh Groves
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Re: Style Suited For Army Infantry?

I would recommend Judo first. It stems from the original Jiu-Jitsu, but has been streamlined to be more efficient (and had weapons removed).

I like Judo because in real world self defense situations most of the throws that are relatively harmless on the mat (especially with a trained partner) could seriously injure. For instance, If I were to perform the throw Uchi-Mata on an untrained individual and throw them onto a concrete or packed dirt surface, they are probably at the very least going to have the wind knocked out of them and be disoriented, which puts me at a huge advantage.

Regarding not liking the ground fighting bias that was mentioned earlier: I feel that it is important because striking will not really be that likely in a battle environment, by the time you no longer have use of a weapon then it is probably a little late for a striking based system. I do not think that striking is irrelevant, just that it is less likely to be helpful. Picture this: you're on the battle field and your adrenaline is through the roof - the enemy is right in front of you and you're both out of ammo. Now how likely is it that you're going to get a chance to stand up and fight? I think not very. I feel that either you or the enemy is going charge and attempt a take-down most likely.

The Army combatives will teach you a lot on the ground, but the Level 1 class is very very basic. You won't really learn any fun stuff until higher levels.
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Old 04-03-2010, 09:18 PM   #17
Robert D Taylor Jr
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Re: Style Suited For Army Infantry?

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Originally Posted by Josh Groves View Post
I would recommend Judo first. It stems from the original Jiu-Jitsu, but has been streamlined to be more efficient (and had weapons removed).

I like Judo because in real world self defense situations most of the throws that are relatively harmless on the mat (especially with a trained partner) could seriously injure. For instance, If I were to perform the throw Uchi-Mata on an untrained individual and throw them onto a concrete or packed dirt surface, they are probably at the very least going to have the wind knocked out of them and be disoriented, which puts me at a huge advantage.

Regarding not liking the ground fighting bias that was mentioned earlier: I feel that it is important because striking will not really be that likely in a battle environment, by the time you no longer have use of a weapon then it is probably a little late for a striking based system. I do not think that striking is irrelevant, just that it is less likely to be helpful. Picture this: you're on the battle field and your adrenaline is through the roof - the enemy is right in front of you and you're both out of ammo. Now how likely is it that you're going to get a chance to stand up and fight? I think not very. I feel that either you or the enemy is going charge and attempt a take-down most likely.

The Army combatives will teach you a lot on the ground, but the Level 1 class is very very basic. You won't really learn any fun stuff until higher levels.

IN "real life", your buddy(or his) is going to doulble tap him and you're going to drive on. What you're describing is far more likely in the movies. If not you're going to crush his skull with your steel and plastic rifle, or knife, or a stick or an e-tool. You're probably not going to try for a kimura or triangle choke. If you do, and it works, then when his buddy with ammo comes in you're laying on the ground ready for the Barney round. The best h2h is running away while calling in an air strike.

OP if you want to be good at the Army system MMA is the way to go. If you want to beat up the guy at the watering hole, KM or SPEAR.
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Old 04-04-2010, 10:29 AM   #18
Josh Groves
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Re: Style Suited For Army Infantry?

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Originally Posted by Robert D Taylor Jr View Post
IN "real life", your buddy(or his) is going to doulble tap him and you're going to drive on. What you're describing is far more likely in the movies. If not you're going to crush his skull with your steel and plastic rifle, or knife, or a stick or an e-tool. You're probably not going to try for a kimura or triangle choke. If you do, and it works, then when his buddy with ammo comes in you're laying on the ground ready for the Barney round. The best h2h is running away while calling in an air strike.
I guess I should have specified a little more clearly on that I meant the throws. I wouldn't care much for trying a submission in battle- I could see the throw being beneficial though, which could give you enough time to unholster your sidearm or whatever is needed to finish the person off.

You are absolutely correct about the buddy thing though. I wouldn't imagine there are too many situations in which one would actually encounter a hand to hand combat situation, and especially not alone.
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Old 04-05-2010, 10:36 AM   #19
James Goodin
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Re: Style Suited For Army Infantry?

17 years Infantry. I like the Army Combatives program. Levels 1 and 2 are basic ground skills and you dont get to the stand up game till level 3. As for as outside i would recommend boxing. With all my gear on I could not throw some one or grapple on the ground very well and kicks are hard to do even with plate carriers.

Punch the dude in the face and then your buddy shoots or detains him.
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Old 04-05-2010, 09:22 PM   #20
John Corona
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Re: Style Suited For Army Infantry?

Recommend whatever style involves throwing sand in the guys face and eye gouging. If they emphasize Hanibal Lecter style biting, that would be a plus.
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