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Old 11-13-2008, 02:51 PM   #21
Sean Dunston
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Re: BJ Penn vs. GSP - UFC 94!

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Originally Posted by Celio Silva View Post
Ain't no torch being passed this Saturday...
Correct me if I am wrong, but I took this to mean that even if Brock beats him, he will not be holding the "torch" that Randy Couture commands.

Or did you mean that Randy is going to win, so nothing will change?

Personally - I want Randy to win, but I am not betting on it.
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Old 11-13-2008, 03:56 PM   #22
Eric Helms
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Re: BJ Penn vs. GSP - UFC 94!

Would love to see GSP drop to LW if he could make the cut, but I don't see him losing any less wiehgt, but a double title match would be awesome
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Old 11-13-2008, 04:45 PM   #23
Celio Silva
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Re: BJ Penn vs. GSP - UFC 94!

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Or did you mean that Randy is going to win, so nothing will change?
That!!
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Old 11-14-2008, 05:12 AM   #24
Jeffrey Crawford
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Re: BJ Penn vs. GSP - UFC 94!

Sunday it is
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Old 11-14-2008, 04:05 PM   #25
James Besenyei
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Re: BJ Penn vs. GSP - UFC 94!

One can never count Randy out, he's so strong willed and skilled. But I agree with others here that this is a bad match-up for Randy.

Randy left the heavyweight division because guys were getting so much bigger and stronger. Yes, Tim Sylvia is a big guy, but he's slow with no ground game. Yes, Gonzaga is an athletic guy with a good ground game, but he wasn't so much bigger than Randy that it made a huge difference (Gabe = 6'2" 252lbs; Randy = 6'1" 225lbs; 27 lbs difference). And in that fight Randy's wrestling skill and aggression overwhelmed Gabe. In this fight he's going up against a quick, athletic, freakishly strong, aggressive beast. Randy's still 6'1" 225, but Brock is 6'4" 265. That's a 40 lb weight difference. And Brock is quicker and more athletic than either Gonzaga or Sylvia.

Stand up/dirty boxing goes to Randy.
Ground & Pound goes to Brock.
Submissions go to Randy.
Strength and quickness goes to Brock.
Endurance goes to Randy.
Youthful aggression goes to Brock (and that CAN win fights).
Experience goes to Randy (and that CAN win fights).

Pretty even according to those standards. I just feel like the deck is stacked against Randy here. I wish I had a more substantive argument. But as in many things in life I'm going with my gut, and my gut tells me that Brock is going to win. Honestly, I hope I'm wrong, and I'll be cheering more loudly than anyone if Randy wins. Talk to you all on Sunday.
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Old 11-14-2008, 05:07 PM   #26
Markian Haluszka
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Re: BJ Penn vs. GSP - UFC 94!

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Originally Posted by James Besenyei View Post
One can never count Randy out, he's so strong willed and skilled. But I agree with others here that this is a bad match-up for Randy.

Randy left the heavyweight division because guys were getting so much bigger and stronger. Yes, Tim Sylvia is a big guy, but he's slow with no ground game. Yes, Gonzaga is an athletic guy with a good ground game, but he wasn't so much bigger than Randy that it made a huge difference (Gabe = 6'2" 252lbs; Randy = 6'1" 225lbs; 27 lbs difference). And in that fight Randy's wrestling skill and aggression overwhelmed Gabe. In this fight he's going up against a quick, athletic, freakishly strong, aggressive beast. Randy's still 6'1" 225, but Brock is 6'4" 265. That's a 40 lb weight difference. And Brock is quicker and more athletic than either Gonzaga or Sylvia.

Stand up/dirty boxing goes to Randy.
Ground & Pound goes to Brock.
Submissions go to Randy.
Strength and quickness goes to Brock.
Endurance goes to Randy.
Youthful aggression goes to Brock (and that CAN win fights).
Experience goes to Randy (and that CAN win fights).

Pretty even according to those standards. I just feel like the deck is stacked against Randy here. I wish I had a more substantive argument. But as in many things in life I'm going with my gut, and my gut tells me that Brock is going to win. Honestly, I hope I'm wrong, and I'll be cheering more loudly than anyone if Randy wins. Talk to you all on Sunday.
Wrestling (ability to control the ground as well as take-down opponent) goes to Brock. They've got similar backgrounds (read: NCAA experience) and Brock's size and quickness tip the scales in his favour. Keep in mind that while he weighs-in at 265 he can likely climb up to 275 by the start of a fight. Additionally, I don't think there's a basis for stating that Randy has better endurance than Brock, who took Heath Herring to a decision and did not look gassed at any point during the fight.

It may seem like I'm waging an anti-Randy campaign, and that's really not my intention -- I have the utmost respect and admiration for him. I just think that Brock matches up too well with him in all tangible aspects of this fight. Will the intangibles dictate the outcome? I guess we'll find out tomorrow night.
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Old 11-14-2008, 09:43 PM   #27
James Besenyei
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Re: BJ Penn vs. GSP - UFC 94!

Brock didn't look gassed against Hearing because Hearing didn't put up a fight! And you're right I'm guessing that Randy has the edge in endurance. There's no way to know unless you put both of them through some type of test and obviously i don't have access to that information. My guess is based upon the fact that Randy has less muscle to feed, he knows how to conserve energy in big events (this will be Brock's first real big event), and Bas Rutten thinks his stamina is the key:

“Oh man it is going to be such a great fight. I think that Randy's experience will be the key to the fight. Lesnar may have a chance in the first round and maybe the beginning of the second round but if it goes longer than that Randy's stamina will be the difference. He is known for breaking his opponents down the longer the fight goes and he is not going to lay on the ground like Heath Herring did. Randy is going to scramble and try to escape. Brock is going to have a lot more trouble taking Randy to the ground than a lot of people seem to think.” --Bas Rutten.

Yeah, it's not much, but until the fight is over this is all conjecture anyway. By the way Markian I agree with you completely, I think this is a really, really bad match up for Randy.
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Old 11-14-2008, 10:06 PM   #28
Jeff Haugland
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Re: BJ Penn vs. GSP - UFC 94!

You guys know there is a completely separate thread to comment about Brock and Randy right???
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Old 11-15-2008, 12:48 AM   #29
Celio Silva
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Re: BJ Penn vs. GSP - UFC 94!

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Originally Posted by James Besenyei View Post
Ground & Pound goes to Brock.
Actually James, Ground and Pound goes to Randy...
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Old 11-15-2008, 06:38 AM   #30
Jeffrey Crawford
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Re: BJ Penn vs. GSP - UFC 94!

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Originally Posted by Jeff Haugland View Post
You guys know there is a completely separate thread to comment about Brock and Randy right???
You are right, Just got caught up in the conversation....

So anyways,

Randy and Brock

Brock and Randy have different wrestling styles...That is why a lot of people are giving Randy the advantage in the clinch and brock the advantage with top control ( not to mention his size). I hope Randy pulls this out but i do believe this is the one time it would pay to bet against him.
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