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Old 02-07-2008, 07:45 PM   #101
Zach Forrest
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Re: A gallon of milk?

I found another article from a bodybuilding website (ughh)...

http://www.ironmagazine.com/viewarticle-3995.html (w/fs)

Do searches on "dry muscle synthesis" and "maximum amount of protein synthesis" and you get some decent articles on the subject.

I will continue to search for info, and I will post articles as I find them.

I also encourage anyone to post any articles saying it IS possible to put on more than 5# of dry muscle in a month.
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Old 02-08-2008, 01:25 AM   #102
Zach Forrest
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Re: A gallon of milk?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Craig Van De Walker View Post
Zach,
It usually bugs me when someone speaks about what is impossible as a "FACT"

Look up the Colorado experiment.

First subject (Casey Viator), 28 days
Increase in bodyweight........45.28 pounds
Loss of bodyfat..............17.93 pounds
Muscular gain.................63.21 pounds

Second subject (Arthur Jones),22 days
Increase in bodyweight .......13.62 pounds
Loss of bodyfat...............1.82 pounds
Muscular gain.................15.44 pounds

Obviously not normal results. I personally gained about 40 lbs in three months in my youth. Much of it muscle, it is "possible" but just maybe not what the usual is!
I read the report and I must say that I am still completely skeptic. They trained on Nautilus equipment exclusively and only did negative/negative accentuated movements? For a total workout time of approx. 5 hours over 22 days?

Ok, the numbers you posted are possible with that training I guess. What I want to know, though, is what they ate because I would put money on the fact that their diet had more to do with those gains than the training. They were probably drinking a gallon of milk per day!

But still, those numbers, not to mention the strength gain that was reported, totally blow my mind. It really is incredible what the human body can do.

But what seems to be happening in this thread is a form on miscommunication on my part. I should have clearly defined the terms I was using as we all seem to have a different definition of what "muscle weight" is.

Gaining that body weight is totally possible in that amount of time. Even lean body mass. But not dry muscle weight.

Body weight/mass = fat, bone, water, dry muscle, glycogen, plasma, and whatever is in your stomach. Basically everything...
Lean body mass = bone, water/glycogen in the muscle, and the actual muscle itself.
Dry muscle weight = only muscle fibre

That is where the confusion seems to be. I am simply stating that there is a limit to what your body can produce in the way of muscle fibres in a given amount of time. It is much easier to see and quantify gains in the way of body mass/weight as well as lean body mass.

That's all I was trying to say. I kind of regret making the initial post now, I wasn't trying to create any arguments.
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Old 02-08-2008, 05:28 AM   #103
Brandon Oto
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Re: A gallon of milk?

The usual complaint about the Colorado experiment (which is often used to promote HIIT methodologies) is that Casey Viator was basically an athlete rebuilding muscle he'd recently lost, which is not quite the same story as a newbie creating it from whole cloth.
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Old 02-08-2008, 06:41 AM   #104
Craig Van De Walker
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Re: A gallon of milk?

Brandon,
Yes I realize that and it is a huge difference. My point being depending on my mood when I see something put forth as "impossible" especially when I think much more than what is being criticized is possible I sometimes can't help myself.


I think I am going to excuse myself from this thread before I hear it is "impossible" to gain muscle while losing fat. We've gone from 19lbs of muscle in 18-months is impossible, to 5lbs of "dry muscle" in a month is impossible.
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Old 02-08-2008, 05:48 PM   #105
Joe Waguespack
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Re: A gallon of milk?

I always find it funny when people start talking about this study and that study and what is possible and impossible. I truely believe that there are things that the human body can achieve that science cannot explain with controlled studies. I think a lot of time the obvious and the attainable are shot down because they are not explainable.I always heard that it was "impossible" to gain muscle and lose fat at the same time, which we all know is BS. I can speak from my own personal experience, in the past year I have taken about 8 inches off my waist while adding an 1 1/4 inch to my arms, 2 inches to my chest and 1 1/2 inches to my legs, and i never measured them but my shoulders have exploded from the overhead work. I went through this transformation after starting Crossfit and eating far less calories then I ever have in my life. The arm and chest gains came solely from pull ups, push ups and dips also. I also have been training for about 12 years. So i am a not a newbie ( to training) , I ate reduced calories, I did mainly Crossfit and still lost fat and gained muscle. I find it funny when I tell people I actually have lost about 50 lbs and added size. My body went from an A shape to a V shape.LOL

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Old 02-08-2008, 06:27 PM   #106
Jake Di Vita
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Re: A gallon of milk?

Yep I pretty much agree with Joe.

"The person that says it can't be done is often interupted by the person doing it."
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Old 02-08-2008, 07:18 PM   #107
Zach Forrest
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Re: A gallon of milk?

I am well acquainted with the fact that the human body can do things we can't imagine. Usually these things are connected to a mental state, though. As a former member of special operations, the mind's ability to push the physical body has always astounded me. But when it comes to building muscle..science is the only thing that will provide statistics...right?

I agree with the fact that is is quite possible to put on muscle while burning fat, never said that wasn't possible. Joe, congrats on the gains. Quite impressive.

If I say it is impossible to lift 5,000kg over your head without mechanical aid, is someone going to argue with me?
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Old 02-08-2008, 07:40 PM   #108
Joe Waguespack
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Re: A gallon of milk?

I just think we will greatly limit our abilities by accepting only what can be proven and measured by science. I think in many situations human will can blast through limitations that science and statistics have set. Wow , I'm getting off into a whole different thing here. I just looked up and realized the title of this thread was "A gallon of milk?"LOL
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Old 02-08-2008, 08:00 PM   #109
Zach Forrest
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Re: A gallon of milk?

I guess I have to admit that I agree with you Joe on that fact that the human body can accomplish more than what we normally consider is possible with a strong will.

Pertaining to this topic (if we are even on topic anymore ), I don't think our will has any influence on our body's ability to synthesize muscle fibre. Do you?

Yeah..this topic is becoming micro-analyzed. I'll take the blame for that. How about: Milk = good. Milk + good training/rest = good results.

We can work with that, right?
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Old 02-08-2008, 08:21 PM   #110
Joe Waguespack
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Re: A gallon of milk?

Good one, yeah I'll agree there maybe the willing muscle fiber to grow might be a stretch

Ok , since we are getting back on topic I am wondering if a trainee took in the same amount of calories that is in a gallon of milk but , say, from a high quality weight gainer or protein supplement that had a very high BCAA content and amino acid profile and maybe glucose to replenish muscle glycogen, would the results be greater? I am wondering because I have found a post workout supp. called Surge from Biotest, I used to use it and it definitely helped with recovery and muscle gain. I no longer use it since I started the Zone , but it is relatively inexpensive and is just a high quality whey with added BCAA's and glucose. It might be worth a try for anyone curious.
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