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Fitness Theory and Practice. CrossFit's rationale & foundations. Who is fit? What is fitness?

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Old 07-20-2010, 09:49 AM   #31
Daniel Lyell
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Re: CrossFit & Wendler's 5/3/1 hybrid results reports

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Originally Posted by John Stone View Post
Interesting reading this. I have been trying something very similar, mixing the 5/3/1 program in with WODs. I won't be done with the first cycle for another week (about to start deloading), but I've been trying to retool my mix somewhat for next month / next cycle (hand-picking WOD scheduling a month in advance so as not to conflict with 5/3/1 lift days for starters -- nothing worse than doing a lift day + extra exercises, and then rolling into a really hard WOD hitting all the same muscle groups).

One thing I will test is pushing a couple of lift days together:

Day 1: 5/3/1 lift
Day 2: 5/3/1 lift + G or M
Day 3: Rest
Day 4: 5/3/1 lift
Day 5: G+M
Day 6: WGM
Day 7: Rest

Thoughts?
Forgive my ignorance, but what are W, G, and M?

Thanks for all the reports guys. I'm on my second cycle now, and will be reporting back after this or another cycle. One thing I have found out already is that if you are eating quite a bit, the lifts suffer tremendously. As long as I monitor my food intake to make sure it is enough its been going well though.
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Old 07-20-2010, 09:58 AM   #32
hugh driscoll
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Re: CrossFit & Wendler's 5/3/1 hybrid results reports

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Originally Posted by Daniel Lyell View Post
Forgive my ignorance, but what are W, G, and M?
From a template article in the Crossfit Journal--weightlifting, gymnastics and monostructural (run 10k, etc).
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Old 07-20-2010, 10:12 AM   #33
Daniel Lyell
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Re: CrossFit & Wendler's 5/3/1 hybrid results reports

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Originally Posted by hugh driscoll View Post
From a template article in the Crossfit Journal--weightlifting, gymnastics and monostructural (run 10k, etc).
Gotcha thanks!
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Old 07-20-2010, 11:26 AM   #34
Tamara Cohen
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Re: CrossFit & Wendler's 5/3/1 hybrid results reports

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Originally Posted by David Meverden View Post
You might not get all the speed back, especially if you end up gaining weight. My 5k time got more than a minute slower after I put on 15-20 lbs of muscle (much of it in the legs), but I am completely comfortable with that trade off. CF is a whole different beast after you add 100 lbs to your backsquat and deadlift.

Eventually I'll start adding in CFE stuff to try to get faster but I'd like to hit 1000 CFT first. We'll see.
Be. Quiet.

I'm guessing I've put more than 30 lbs on my back squat without gaining more than 2 lbs. Obviously, I'd be happy if I could continue in THAT direction .
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Old 07-20-2010, 11:40 AM   #35
John Stone
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Re: CrossFit & Wendler's 5/3/1 hybrid results reports

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Originally Posted by David Meverden View Post
Looks like a solid plan to me, though I'm obviously not one of the strongest people around here. I like that with the 3 day a week lifting plan you won't always been hampering the same lift with the post lifting WoD. One thing I've considered and might try if I had a real home gym set up, would be something like this:


Day 1: 5/3/1 squat 5/3/1 Bench
Day 2: Metcon WoD
Day 3: Rest
Day 4: 5/3/1 Deadlift 5/3/1 Press
Day 5: Metcon WoD or Endurance workout
Day 6: Metcon WoD
Day 7: Rest

I feel like the WoDs would interfere with strength building less and I like the idea of whole body strength workouts.

I haven't thought of doing full-body strength in one day before. Why wouldn't you do something like:

Day 1: Squat + Bench (aka W)
Day 2: G+M
Day 3: WGM
Day 4: Rest
Day 5: Deadlift + Press (aka W)
Day 6: G+M
Day 7: WGM
Day 8: Rest

et cetera

I'm 36 so I don't know if I could recover from that type of a schedule, but now you have me thinking about it.
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Old 07-20-2010, 01:06 PM   #36
Leon Robotham
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Re: CrossFit & Wendler's 5/3/1 hybrid results reports

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Originally Posted by Tamara Cohen View Post
Thanks, Leon. Yeah, I have pretty much decided to completely do my own thing, haha. I'm fairly certain almost everyone at my box thinks I'm crazy, but considering I'm about to out squat some of the girls who have 30 or 40 lbs on me...whatever .

The metcon stuff gets to me more out of habit than anything. Logically, I know I'll be fine. My most recent numbers are a 71 second 400m run and a 1:44.7 500m row, both of which I know I could beat today. If I lose any speed, I'll get it back quickly (repeat to self 100 times ).
Good to hear it. Speed is not going to be an issue, I don't believe.Typically women won't gain the type of muscle that David describes, I've certainly not seen it (and you've proved it to yourself too). You will continue to get stonger with a minimal change in bodyweight, assuming diet was good before and stays the same. Keep on doing what you're doing and I look forward to seeing how you do.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tamara Cohen View Post
Be. Quiet.

I'm guessing I've put more than 30 lbs on my back squat without gaining more than 2 lbs. Obviously, I'd be happy if I could continue in THAT direction .
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Old 07-20-2010, 01:36 PM   #37
Paul Sousa
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Re: CrossFit & Wendler's 5/3/1 hybrid results reports

David, can I ask why you do the met-con before the assistance work? Just curious. Also, have you mixed up the assistance work at all since you first posted the routine? Not sure if you're interested, but the assistance work I found most hepful when doing 5/3/1 is the following:

Bradford Press (helped Press)
Planks (helped all lifts)
DB Bench (helped Bench Press)
DB Rows (helped Bench and Deadlift)
Weighted Situps (helped all lifts)
Good Mornings (helped Deadlifts)

I hate squats and suck at them terribly so i don't have any tips on that.
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Old 07-20-2010, 10:29 PM   #38
David Meverden
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Re: CrossFit & Wendler's 5/3/1 hybrid results reports

Thanks for the tips, Paul. I might play around a little more with the assistance lifts and perhaps take up some of your suggestions.

As for the assistance after the metcon, it just seemed like a good way to order things. This way I do my lifts fresh, hit them hard, do the metcon in a decent shape, then can burn myself out on the assistance work after that. It also puts at least SOME of my lifting closer to my post workout snack.

It seems like things wouldn't go well if I did assistance then tried to do a metcon. For example, if I do 3x5 deadlift, then 4x10 good mornings, then 3 or 4 sets of hanging leg raises, and then try to do just about any kind of meton my performance will suck, at best, and be dangerous, at worst, as crappy midline stablity due to fatigue and whole body functional movements do not mix well.

Of course this stuff is just me shooting around ideas in my head. I do ENJOY the order of operations I've decided on, but I have no idea whether or how much it affects strength gains. What do you think, Paul (or others)? Do you think I would have noticably better strength gains if I got all the strength work done first? Do you think I could still hit metcons hard/safely in that order? How long would I rest between my last assistance work and the WoD? Right now I will sometimes take as little as 5-10 minutes after my last main set before starting the WoD. Should I rest longer in between?
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Old 07-21-2010, 04:31 AM   #39
Daniel Lyell
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Re: CrossFit & Wendler's 5/3/1 hybrid results reports

Personally the way I've been doing it is to get my 5/3/1 lifts + assistance work done early in the day, and then do a metcon later in the day/after work. That way I'm fresh for both and can go all out on each. Sort of like how crossfit endurance WODs are supposed to be done 3+ hours after your typical WOD, I've found the idea works well here too.
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Old 07-21-2010, 09:52 AM   #40
John Stone
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Re: CrossFit & Wendler's 5/3/1 hybrid results reports

With my (very, very) limited experiments, I've had better results doing the WOD-type metcon after the assistance work.

What I've found is that when I burn my cardio out, I lose a lot of strength -- to the point where I sometimes can't finish (or even do) the assistance work. If I do the assistance work first, though, I can always do a metcon after. It isn't always a full as-RX metcon, and the times can suck wind, but it isn't a complete miss.

That's sort of where I came from in the post about strength the other day -- once cardio is shot, strength seems to fall away. But I can burn out my strength and still knock out a metcon (won't be setting any PR's, but it's still work done).

I like Daniels idea best, btw, when I was able to split my workouts I was able to get 2-3 workouts a day with no problem. Unfortunately my schedule doesn't support that most days of the week anymore.
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