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Old 07-28-2006, 11:38 AM   #1
Jason Steele
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http://www.cnn.com/2006/HEALTH/07/28...eut/index.html

I am not advocating this, just thought people would find this interesting.
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Old 07-28-2006, 12:16 PM   #2
Scott Kustes
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Keep in mind the sources: Physician's Committee for Responsible Medicine is a front for PETA. I believe Pritikin, the low-fat guru, was also involved in this one.
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Old 07-28-2006, 01:29 PM   #3
Ron Murphy
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Does the fact that pritikin's was involved in the study negate the finding of the study. I read some of the info that I could find and pritikin's name wasn't mentioned, Scott maybe you have different info.
Saying pcrm is a front for peta is wrong, they may have similar interests, but they go about things in very different ways.

The vegans doctors for years have been saying "don't learn to live with diabetes, get read of the disease" They have been getting good results by following they low fat diet.
So now the vegan doctors got together with George Washington and toronto universities and did a study proven they were right. Most of the people who post on this board don't want to here it.
Diabeties is right up their along with cancer and heart disease for deaths many countries. The vegan diet seems to be a good solution for all of these diseases.

Whats wrong with showing good treatment to animals. maybe you have a problem about the in your face approach peta has, lots of vegans do too. whats the solution ignore the problem.
Even the well respected Dr G showed a concern for for the treatment of animals, I believe in a posting about milk.

All you meat eaters out there don't be concerned or annoyed with all the vegan talk on this board. Humans have been consuming meat as their diet for most of their existence and will continue until the last living animals are gone from this planet. "quote from a vegan dr"


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Old 07-28-2006, 03:15 PM   #4
Nick Cummings
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How would a vegan (meat free) diet help with diabetes? By what mechanism does meat effect insulin production and resistance? Aren't carbohydrates the culprit in diabetes and insulin related problems?
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Old 07-28-2006, 03:52 PM   #5
Robert Wolf
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If its approached "smart" one is removing all the processed carbs from the diet...loads of veggies, nuts and fruit are consumed along with things like pearled barly and oatmeal.

A pretty good improvement from the standard Doritos and 74oz Cokes that seem to pass for supper these days but as was mentioned in the critique of Dean Ornish's Reversing Heart disease paper, a vegetarian diet as is commonly proacticed, is an improvement over a crappy american diet but it is still a diet that increases triglycerides over time. This is an indicator of insulin resistance and serious problems brewing.

Now if one is using vegetarian sources of dense protein and does the Zone or something along that line we are not going to see these problems. Most vegetarians and NONE of the veg-Doc's advocate this approach BTW.
Robb
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Old 07-28-2006, 03:58 PM   #6
Ron Murphy
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most carbs are very harmful but there is a big difference between a candy bar and a yam or some other healthy fruit and vegetable. I personally have seen great results on a vegan diet in cases of diabetes.

I had a friend, a tuff retired New York Italian policemen, who owed a pizza palor. He finally change to a plant based diet and was able to get off his medication and free himself from diabetes.
If you are really interested check out this
http://www.diseaseproof.com/archives...-diabetes.html
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Old 07-28-2006, 06:29 PM   #7
Scott Kustes
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Ron, not liking PETA doesn't mean we don't care about animal welfare. Purchasing organic, grassfed meats is our way of showing our concern for the animals.

As for PETA/PCRM: "Strike one came as PCRM president Neal Barnard was exposed for his role as president of the PETA Foundation and for collaborating with violent animal-rights activists" - http://www.consumerfreedom.com/news_.../headline/2667
Even the AMA doesn't recognize PCRM as a respectable group.

What was your friend's diet like before his change to a plant based diet? I'm assuming not great since he owned a pizza parlor, in which case there's little surprise that he improved.

And it was Ornish, not Pritikin...my bad.
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Old 07-28-2006, 08:37 PM   #8
Ron Murphy
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the questions about peta and pcrm connection are up for debate according to who you read ,I am not impressed with your link to consumer freedom, and your connection to peta and neal barnard. Neal barnard doesn't advocate violence
The real question is about diabetes, trying to change the focus on to the peta connection doesn't negate the finding of the study. and to negate the study by claiming
"Even the AMA doesn't recognize PCRM as a respectable group"
is also not true
this is taken from wikipededia
PCRM has been criticized by the American Medical Association for misrepresenting facts about animal research and for advocating vegetarianism. However, in a statement issued on February 10 of 2004, the AMA retracted its critical comments about PCRM's dietary recommendations. The AMA published one of Dr. Barnard's research articles in the Archives of Family Medicine in 1995 and has used various PCRM physicians as quotable experts in American Medical News
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Old 07-28-2006, 08:52 PM   #9
Ron Murphy
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By the way scott, no matter how much new evidence that comes out supporting a vegan diet talking to you is like "beating a dead horse"!!!---- your own words scott.
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Old 07-28-2006, 09:14 PM   #10
Nick Cummings
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Ron, how is a vegan diet superior, or similiar but diffrent, when compared to a paleo zone type diet? I think one would be hard pressed to get as much nutrient diverse food by totally restricting animal products. Why even restrict animal products? The thing I keep hearing is moral objection to treatment of animals. It seems that organic meats is a possible way to minimize animal cruelty and maintain meat in the diet.
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