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Old 11-05-2014, 04:31 PM   #1
Rolando Garcia
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competition debate

so i have been "debating" with another member of my gym this last month, in my opinion he is one of the best crossfitters in the our box. He has competed for about 2 years as part of a team(scaled division) and does fairly well with his teams he is with. He's a well rounded athlete; he has the strengh, stanima and skill. The debate is, i keep telling him, he needs to move up to RX division while he insist on staying SCALED. The 2 consistent points of his arguments for staying scaled are, he can't do more than 5 ring muscle ups in a row, and that he feels he's not at "that level" yet. I tell him, i think he is just staying in the scaled division "to feel better about himself", meaning if he stays scaled he has a chance to win 1st instead of doing Rx and finishing mid or lower level.

any opinions are welcomed?
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Old 11-05-2014, 04:45 PM   #2
Diana Alt
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Re: competition debate

I am the judging director for a series of local competitions and I help program the events. I can say with absolute confidence that one of the things that I hear competitors crabbing about in competition is sandbaggers in the scaled division who should be RX. My personal opinion is that if you can do ANY ring muscle ups you probably should be competing RX in all but the most prestigious competitions, and if you are making the podium on scaled, you should be looking to move up.

The conversation that I tend to have with people who are in the same boat as your friend about this is "why are you competing?" If the answer is anything like "I want to see how I measure up" the I push HARD on people to compete RX unless they flat are unable to lift the weights listed in the competition standards. Continuing to podium in a lower division really doesn't tell you much. I'd rather come in last in My first RX comp than make the podium for the 4th time in scaled.
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Old 11-05-2014, 05:12 PM   #3
Rolando Garcia
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Re: competition debate

Your response is music to my ears. Another argument from my friend is in certain parts of the state, people who do RX competitors are not the same throughout parts of the state. What he means is, men in let's say Houston area are way more advanced than lets say men in lower south texas. Of course I feel it is another BS argument because RX is RX, due to population the number of better athletes will be in the bigger population.

The reason I do ask my buddy to compete at this level is because I do feel our local box needs more RX competitors, so that others in the box will see it and it will not seem like something only "the Crossfit elite" can only do.
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Old 11-06-2014, 06:31 AM   #4
Diana Alt
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Re: competition debate

I am glad to hear that my response makes sense to you. I also think that the geographical argument is complete nonsense. The top athlete in my area, who went to the Games this year for Pete's sake, has lived in areas that are best described as the boonies and has a garage gym now. And people from the "city gyms" are getting beat by people from BFE in competition as well.

Your friend is making excuses so he can continue to feel proud of winning/placing high. It's the CrossFit equivalent of beating up the scrawny kid and taking his lunch money and is extremely detrimental to the community, IMHO.
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Old 11-06-2014, 07:29 AM   #5
Jayme Gruber
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Re: competition debate

To me, scaled is for beginners. Do a few of them and it's time to move on. Podium at any point and it's time to move on. If you can do MUs & HSPUs don't even bother going scaled. I know someone from another gym that did a team scaled comp on a Saturday then did individual scaled at the same comp on Sunday and was on the podium for both. Do you feel good about yourself? You obviously have no business being in that division. I'd feel better about getting 20th out of 40 people in Rx then I would running away w a podium finish against people who obviously aren't on the same level as me.

It's a combination of him not wanting to push himself, step out of his comfort zone and not wanting his ego hurt since he's used to "winning".
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Old 11-06-2014, 09:28 AM   #6
Brendan McNamar
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Re: competition debate

I will disagree. Strong athletes in scaled divisions is a message to the people who program competitions.

The athlete in question seems to simply want to be able to do every event fast and well. In scaled he can do this in RX he might not be able to.

As someone who has entered scaled as a strong athlete I took no pride in my high finish against weaker athletes. I just wanted to participate and didn't want the injury risk of RX.

In the end the Open fixes this problem.

Competitions are suffering from difficulty "creep". The workouts just keep getting heavier and harder.

People should enter whatever division provides the most fun.
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Old 11-06-2014, 05:34 PM   #7
Diana Alt
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Re: competition debate

Brendan, I do agree that competitions are suffering from difficulty creep. I think people feel like heavier = more interesting when really, in order to be more interesting instead you need to think more about your venue and how to make it easy for spectators to see what's happening. A confusing max effort event becomes more interesting when you turn it into a ladder where people progress from station to stain or get a placard to display the weight being attempted. A chipper or RFT event becomes more interesting when you figure out how to have people progress through the exercises in a lane. Doesn't have to be heavier or more exotic to be fun to watch.
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Old 11-10-2014, 10:47 AM   #8
Daniel OBrien
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Re: competition debate

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brendan McNamar View Post
I will disagree. Strong athletes in scaled divisions is a message to the people who program competitions.

The athlete in question seems to simply want to be able to do every event fast and well. In scaled he can do this in RX he might not be able to.

As someone who has entered scaled as a strong athlete I took no pride in my high finish against weaker athletes. I just wanted to participate and didn't want the injury risk of RX.
Wow. So basically, if the competition isn't programmed well, you want to "stick it" to the organizers and in turn, people who should truly be in scaled? This is an attitude that will barely put anyone in RX.

This reminds me of softball. There's usually A, B, C, D and E leagues - A being the best (besides Majors) and E being the lowest division - like it was designed for rec leaguers. For USSSA (an association), there was recently their big tournaments:

A Worlds - 13 teams competed
B Worlds - 25 teams competed
E Worlds East - 200+ teams
E Worlds North - 50+ teams
E Worlds West - 150+ teams
Total E teams competing - 400+

It's just a race to the bottom. Everyone plays down, sandbags, gives a bunch of BS reason why they don't move up, etc. It seems like it happens in so many sports nowadays...no one wants to "compete" - they just want to win.
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Old 11-10-2014, 12:42 PM   #9
Robert D Taylor Jr
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Re: competition debate

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Originally Posted by Rolando Garcia View Post
so i have been "debating" with another member of my gym this last month, in my opinion he is one of the best crossfitters in the our box. He has competed for about 2 years as part of a team(scaled division) and does fairly well with his teams he is with. He's a well rounded athlete; he has the strengh, stanima and skill. The debate is, i keep telling him, he needs to move up to RX division while he insist on staying SCALED. The 2 consistent points of his arguments for staying scaled are, he can't do more than 5 ring muscle ups in a row, and that he feels he's not at "that level" yet. I tell him, i think he is just staying in the scaled division "to feel better about himself", meaning if he stays scaled he has a chance to win 1st instead of doing Rx and finishing mid or lower level.

any opinions are welcomed?
I'm in favor of him getting to decide where he wants to compete. You're talking about a CrossFit competition, not something that actually matters. At the end of the day why do you care what he does?
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Old 11-10-2014, 09:36 PM   #10
Richard Colon
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Re: competition debate

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Originally Posted by Robert D Taylor Jr View Post
I'm in favor of him getting to decide where he wants to compete. You're talking about a CrossFit competition, not something that actually matters. At the end of the day why do you care what he does?
I kind of really agree with all of this. Maybe a bit one-sided as I can see the points that others have made about "don't sand bag it" but overall, I'm with Robert.

Its just a random competition, local or otherwise. It doesn't really matter.

Now if someone is trying to make a name for themselves, get a sponsor, become the next Rich, bring more notoriety and generate attention for the gym they own, etc, then this isn't an issue. That person should know exactly where they need to be to work towards this goal. They won't be doing that by dominating the scaled comps consistently without seeing where they stand and working through the ranks of RX.

Otherwise, just let it go. I don't think it would be as much of a detriment to the those that are getting crushed by this guy in the scaled division because in all honesty, while losing sucks, when you are in scaled, all that you should you be worrying about is doing better than last time and knowing you gave it your all. It shouldn't matter if someone knocked you off the podium because they are sandbagging it.

It sucks to lose and get smashed by someone that most likely shouldn't be there but that is on them. In the end, it should be nothing that a 20 minute relax and time afterward with friends and family couldn't make you forget about. If you do get that bothered and up in arms about this, then that is when it is time for you to step your game up and try and move to RX yourself - because clearly competition matters more than the experience.

RX is the big leagues. Sure it isn't the games but still, an RX competition is just that - a competition that actually measures the competitive part because the standards are the same across the board. You see where you stack up against the Khalipa's and Annie's of the Crossfit world. Otherwise, scaled is just fun and give it your best. Its like some D1 college guy showing up to our Thanksgiving morning football game. I know I'm not in the pro's so I could give 2 $hits. I just do my best, honestly try and beat him on a play or three, call it a good game and go eat some grub.
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