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Workout of the Day Questions & performance regarding CrossFit's WOD

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Old 01-31-2014, 03:12 PM   #11
Kevin Haley
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Re: Scaling?

You are on to something for sure with the scaling notion-but I agree with the posters who have said the body weight is an imperfect proxy for strength-an unfit, untrained 6 footer who weighs 230 pounds-mostly gut-will not be able to do that WOD nearly as well as a much smaller fitter, trained person. But the WOD's at least at our gym are optimized at a particular % of a max lift for the movement indicated-and if it is not specifically stated-the coach at each class will readily offer a suggestion.
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Old 01-31-2014, 05:44 PM   #12
Jayne Whittingham
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Re: Scaling?

Nope, bodyweight % wouldn't work. I am 25 kgs heavier than girls in my gym, who can squat twice as much as me.

Scaling becomes 2nd nature, just work out what the Wod aim is & go lighter if it's high rep, longer, more intense & heavier if shorter or for strength. Bit simplistic but ask the coaches if need be.
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Old 02-01-2014, 11:09 PM   #13
Anders Peter Yoo Hyun Eriksson
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Re: Scaling?

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Originally Posted by Eric Montgomery View Post
Bodyweight does not equal strength. You keep switching back and forth between numbers and percentages which makes me think you don't really understand what I'm saying. The hypothetical 5-10cm taller and 15kg heavier person you described will not necessarily be able to do that workout easier than you, unless they also happen to be stronger than you.

A larger person can handle a larger absolute weight (i.e. KGs) than a smaller person, provided that larger person is also stronger than the lighter person...hence the WR weightlifting total for the 105+ class being higher than the WR total for the 69kg class. But being larger doesn't always equal being stronger on a person to person basis. And if you look at a workout like Linda which is based on percentages of bodyweight, it actually punishes a heavier person for the reasons I talked about earlier, which are related to the cross-sectional area of muscle as it relates to muscle size and strength. Simplified answer is that doubling the size of a muscle does not double its ability to produce force.

When I was coaching and had to advise people on scaling, I never asked them how much they weighed because it's simply not relevant. What is relevant is where they are in terms of strength and conditioning levels.

Also, the person who's 5-10cm taller has to move the barbell an extra few cm on each thruster and sumo deadlift high pull, so he's at a disadvantage in that respect.
Well I DO understand what you are saying and I both agree AND disagree...

You see my bigger "hypotetichal athlete" was as I mentioned at the exact build as myself, just bigger and heavier, with that I also meant that he of course was going to be stronger.

Of course somebody being heavier doesn't equal him being stronger, but if you take two athletes(not powerlifters or anything, just ordinary athletes) who have the same build, but one of them is taller and heavier than the other one, the bigger athlete should be stronger in the sense that he should be able to lift more than the smaller one. If not it would mean that the bigger person is unproportionate.

If I for eaxample compare myself to a guy who weighs 50 kg, I would asume that I'm able to lift more than him in for example dead lift, and for him lifting 50 kg would be harder than it is for me, since for him it would equal his bodyweight, but for me it would br considerbly less. Now I do know thst there are powerlifters who wheigh 50 ks who would make my pr look like a babys and I know that being bigger doesn't always equal being stronger, but for the most part when talking about athletes, a bigger person will be able to lift more than a smaller, in total.

thats why I'm intressted in % of body wheight, but maybe % of 1MR is better.
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Old 02-02-2014, 07:00 AM   #14
Jeff Enge
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Re: Scaling?

Why is this hypothetical similar but upscaled version of you so important?

All it is is a hypothetical exercise, it doesn't tell you anything that could be actionable.
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Old 02-02-2014, 07:11 AM   #15
Josh Turnpike
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Re: Scaling?

Instead of all this scaling, why not just get stronger first?

If your 5rm squat is 140kg, I assume 40kg thrusters would be cake.
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Old 02-02-2014, 10:42 AM   #16
Anders Peter Yoo Hyun Eriksson
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Re: Scaling?

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Originally Posted by Josh Turnpike View Post
Instead of all this scaling, why not just get stronger first?

If your 5rm squat is 140kg, I assume 40kg thrusters would be cake.
Well 40 kg thrusters are no problem(allthough Fran always makes me wanna puke, and **** my pants at the same time, and usally ends with me in fetal position for a longer time than the workout takes... , but 60kg are usually a problem when doing sets of 10 reps etc. just beacuse that it's to heavy for me to be done at such a high rep.

The reason why I need to scale is to being able to get the intended workout that the wod was created for. Me doing a wod as rx'd, but missing the inteded workout by doing it at twice or even thrice the intended time(thus doing it at a slower pace/intensity) will not get me stronger very effectivly.

when doing lifts as rx'd, that for me are very heavy, but doing them for a very long time duration and reps, thats just missing the point of the exercise.

you cant really do both max strenght training and conditioning at the same time. that just is'nt effective. Like you would never do a workout consisting of a wheight close to your 1RM, but like amrap for 20 minutes or in 10x7 sets. or maybe there would be a wod like that thrown in every once in a while just to mix things up a bit, but to do that on mostof your workouts, that would just be stupid and ineffective training. But for me who are lighter, many of the wheights that are in the wod's are too heavy for me to be able to do them in high rep and intensety, thus i need to scale to get the proper workout and being able to get stronger until im that strong that scaling no longer will be necssesary. So what I'm asking for is just more and simple guidelines for scaling. My personal belife is still that % of body wheight can be a guideline(but would still need personal adjustment) and perhaps % of1RM is a better way to scale, but then you would still have the problem with that you might be very explosive and strong in 1RM, but that doesn't have to reflect your conditioning. So there is no perfect gudiline, but there must be bettter than just guessing...

Last edited by Anders Peter Yoo Hyun Eriksson : 02-02-2014 at 10:54 AM. Reason: spelling and added some stuff
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Old 02-02-2014, 11:27 AM   #17
Eric Montgomery
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Re: Scaling?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Anders Peter Yoo Hyun Eriksson View Post
Well 40 kg thrusters are no problem(allthough Fran always makes me wanna puke, and **** my pants at the same time, and usally ends with me in fetal position for a longer time than the workout takes... , but 60kg are usually a problem when doing sets of 10 reps etc. just beacuse that it's to heavy for me to be done at such a high rep.

The reason why I need to scale is to being able to get the intended workout that the wod was created for. Me doing a wod as rx'd, but missing the inteded workout by doing it at twice or even thrice the intended time(thus doing it at a slower pace/intensity) will not get me stronger very effectivly.

when doing lifts as rx'd, that for me are very heavy, but doing them for a very long time duration and reps, thats just missing the point of the exercise.

you cant really do both max strenght training and conditioning at the same time. that just is'nt effective. Like you would never do a workout consisting of a wheight close to your 1RM, but like amrap for 20 minutes or in 10x7 sets. or maybe there would be a wod like that thrown in every once in a while just to mix things up a bit, but to do that on mostof your workouts, that would just be stupid and ineffective training. But for me who are lighter, many of the wheights that are in the wod's are too heavy for me to be able to do them in high rep and intensety, thus i need to scale to get the proper workout and being able to get stronger until im that strong that scaling no longer will be necssesary. So what I'm asking for is just more and simple guidelines for scaling. My personal belife is still that % of body wheight can be a guideline(but would still need personal adjustment) and perhaps % of1RM is a better way to scale, but then you would still have the problem with that you might be very explosive and strong in 1RM, but that doesn't have to reflect your conditioning. So there is no perfect gudiline, but there must be bettter than just guessing...
...which is why it makes a lot of sense for people with below-average strength to do a program that consists of almost-daily strength work in the 1-5 rep range, followed by a short conditioning workout.
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Old 02-02-2014, 12:59 PM   #18
Anders Peter Yoo Hyun Eriksson
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Re: Scaling?

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Originally Posted by Eric Montgomery View Post
...which is why it makes a lot of sense for people with below-average strength to do a program that consists of almost-daily strength work in the 1-5 rep range, followed by a short conditioning workout.
I'm not sure how to understand your statement or how it's connected to what I wrote?

Do you mean that my statement is wrong, because then you must have missundersod me. Im not saying that you can't do heavy sets and THEN do cardio, but you shouldn't do it at THE SAME TIME like in doing for example 90% of your 1RM x15 reps for 5 sets. You wouldn't get a good explosiveness or max strenght training nor would you get a good conditioning training, you would just end up with a bad workout that takes very long time to do.

Or do you infer that I'm below avarage strenght and would benefit from doing a training program like the one you wrote about? =/

I live in sweden so english is not my first language, so sorry if I've missunderstood you, but I just don't see what your statement had to do with my original question...
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Old 02-03-2014, 05:58 AM   #19
Josh Turnpike
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Re: Scaling?

I agree with Eric, Mr Svenska.

He's basically saying to prioritize strength. This will mean you have to do shorter conditioning sessions for a little while.

When you're stronger, eg 5rm squat 140kg, those 60kg thrusters will be cake
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Old 02-04-2014, 11:24 AM   #20
Anders Peter Yoo Hyun Eriksson
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Re: Scaling?

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Originally Posted by Josh Turnpike View Post
I agree with Eric, Mr Svenska.

He's basically saying to prioritize strength. This will mean you have to do shorter conditioning sessions for a little while.

When you're stronger, eg 5rm squat 140kg, those 60kg thrusters will be cake
I don't really know if I should be considerd below avarage strenght, because at 73 kgs I can do 140 kg squats *** to grass(never tried heavier) and alot more if just going to the 90% angle in the legs, I can bench over 110 kg, I can deadlift 155 kg, I can do OHS with 85 kgs wothout a problem, I can do dips and chins with + more than half my body wheight witout a problem etc.

At my wheight I wouldn't consider that so weak that I would need a strenght only program, although I of course would like to improve my overall strenght, but I was hoping to do this with crossfit, not with a dedicated strenght-program. I've only started with many of these movements and I've never really tried doing any heavy lifts before, so I'm expecting to see some improvment just by getting more musclememory.
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