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Old 04-27-2005, 07:09 AM   #1
bill fox
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http://www.t-nation.com/readTopic.do;jsessionid=438C57CC9535C36F778325DF8A7F55FE.hydra ?id=615251

I think you need to cut and paste the link.
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Old 04-27-2005, 07:41 AM   #2
Chris Quaintance
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Here's a clickable version:

http://tinyurl.com/b5ord

Cheers,
--Chris
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Old 04-27-2005, 09:26 AM   #3
Kristi Lees
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Can we get a brief summary?..... :happy:

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Old 04-27-2005, 10:00 AM   #4
Brian Hand
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Kristi, short version, Berardi says more protein, Phillips says not so much; I'd say Phillips was winning on points when I tuned out about halfway through.

Berardi has written some interesting articles over the years in T-mag. However not everything he says is based in fact, lots is speculative, and some is wrong. This is not a slam on Berardi, his writing is worth reading on the whole, just to be taken for what it is, not treated as gospel or even as peer reviewed research.

Some of the stuff that is discussed is ancient. The arithmetic exercise Phillips does that that figures out you only add 7g of protein a day to gain 22 pounds of muscle in a year was done by Mike Mentzer decades ago. It was easily seen as meaningless then, as it is now, since even if a bodybuilder doesn't gain an ounce in a year, the protein requirements for repair and metabolism go up anyway. Kind of disappointing to see it still coming up in a discussion of this level.

Ideally T-mag would have published some of these challenges with Berardi's articles, but it's just not realistic to ask that kind of thing from a muscle mag. They deserve credit for publishing it at all. But the take home lesson would have to be, don't believe everything you read.
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Old 04-28-2005, 09:19 AM   #5
Eric Keller
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Brian,

"Halfway through" was just getting to the beginning of Berardi's responses.

While I don't pretend to understand all the scientific points in both articles, I think Berardi makes some good arguments based on experience and experimentation, with Phillips leaning more heavily on science. Just because we don't know what happens inside the "black box" doesn't mean that the results are fictitious. I find it interesting that Berardi's basic recommendation (although he tailors his programs for each athlete) for macronutrient proportions is 40%/30%/30% carb/protein/fat, which should sound familiar to Zone devotees.
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Old 04-28-2005, 12:43 PM   #6
Brian Hand
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Eric, fair enough, I finished it. I agree that we don't need to know what happens in the black box to evaluate a diet. If Berardi feels 300g of protein is necessary for a 175 pound athlete, that's fine. If he gets results, good for him. I'm just saying because he gets results, doesn't mean he knows what's going on in the box.
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Old 04-28-2005, 02:30 PM   #7
Eric Keller
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Concur.
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Old 04-28-2005, 07:50 PM   #8
Pat Janes
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I've always like Berardi's columns on nutrition. Agreed that a lot of what he relies on is "black-box" data and theory, not "science", but then what does science really know about any of this stuff?

I've noticed the "Zone"ishness of his recommendations also. He just recommends a "lot" more calories; but that's just because the athlete's he's targeting want maximal hypertrophy.
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