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Old 03-29-2010, 12:10 AM   #1
Mark Sun
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Vegans = potential Rhabdo?

I train a bunch of my mom's friends. They are all Vegas due to religious reasons. One of them might have had rhabdo. Everything turned out fine, but it got me thinking.

During CrossFit WODs you break down a lot of muscle fibers. Vegans do not eat enough protein. Does that make them more vulnerable to Rhabdo?

Thoughts?

Experience with Vegans? I would love input on how to train Vegans
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Old 03-29-2010, 05:11 AM   #2
Matt Heriot
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Re: Vegans = potential Rhabdo?

I don't know if you can throw out a blanket statement like "vegans do not eat enough protein". They definitely need to be a little more creative to make sure they are getting enough and certainly don't have as many options as non-vegans.

Lack of protein will result in slower recovery so that may be a factor if insufficient rest was taken between workouts that work similar muscle groups.

Good luck.
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Old 03-29-2010, 07:57 AM   #3
Darrell E. White
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Re: Vegans = potential Rhabdo?

No, Mark, I don't think diet has anything to do with Rhabdo risk. Risk is genetic in part, due to hydration, associated with certain pharmaceuticals, and intensity related. A long on ramp to the freeway of fitness, especially in older individuals. Realize that Vegans will not achieve the same fitness gains because they will not gain as much muscle.

It is what it is.

--bingo
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Old 03-29-2010, 09:32 AM   #4
Mark Sun
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Re: Vegans = potential Rhabdo?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Matt Heriot View Post
I don't know if you can throw out a blanket statement like "vegans do not eat enough protein".
Sorry, I will rephrase that. "My mom and her group don't eat enough protein."
Most the vegans that I am around eat little to no protein.
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Old 03-29-2010, 09:45 AM   #5
Katherine Derbyshire
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Re: Vegans = potential Rhabdo?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark Sun View Post
Sorry, I will rephrase that. "My mom and her group don't eat enough protein."
Most the vegans that I am around eat little to no protein.
I suspect that being a de-conditioned middle-aged woman poses more of a rhabdo risk than being a vegan.

OTOH, rhabdo is actually more common in former athletes, former military, returning Crossfitters, etc. People with the mental ability to push themselves well past muscle failure. Which means it might be helpful to know more about the (potential) rhabdo case.

Katherine
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Old 03-29-2010, 06:33 PM   #6
Steven Low
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Re: Vegans = potential Rhabdo?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Darrell E. White View Post
No, Mark, I don't think diet has anything to do with Rhabdo risk. Risk is genetic in part, due to hydration, associated with certain pharmaceuticals, and intensity related. A long on ramp to the freeway of fitness, especially in older individuals. Realize that Vegans will not achieve the same fitness gains because they will not gain as much muscle.

It is what it is.

--bingo
Quote:
Originally Posted by Katherine Derbyshire View Post
I suspect that being a de-conditioned middle-aged woman poses more of a rhabdo risk than being a vegan.

OTOH, rhabdo is actually more common in former athletes, former military, returning Crossfitters, etc. People with the mental ability to push themselves well past muscle failure. Which means it might be helpful to know more about the (potential) rhabdo case.

Katherine
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Old 03-30-2010, 11:39 PM   #7
Mark Sun
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Re: Vegans = potential Rhabdo?

Thank you all for your input. My moms group has been training full body bootcamp style workouts for over 3 months. I started incorporating mini WODs to get them ramped up. I had them do cindy with band rows instead of pullups. This is when the rhabdo happen.

I've read the forum post on rhabdo and also did research myself. I understand the types of people most likely to get it, how to avoid it, etc.

I still think not having an adequate amount of "complete" proteins (1 gram per body weight) will raise the possibilities of rhabdo for a crossfitter.

Anyone have personal experience with this? Either being vegan, training a vegan, or training with a vegan. Is there special scaling, scheduling, etc for a crossfitting vegan.

Thanks for everyones input again!
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Old 04-10-2010, 06:07 PM   #8
Anne Colobella
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Re: Vegans = potential Rhabdo?

I just posted this in another thread so I apologize if its redundant... But since you have a genuine concern I will risk the chance of irritating people and post it again. I am not criticizing paleo at all by saying this. In fact I think it works for many so please don't think I am. What I am saying is it is possible to obtain enough protein when vegan if you are diligent.

I get a lot of crap about vegetarianism/veganism especially within the fitness community. I think it is sad because I participate in this lifestyle for religious reasons. Regardless of your reasons there are loads of vegan athletes (power lifters, olympians, triathletes) who have excelled on an animal free diet. One of the biggest dietary myths is that you need animals to get protein. The fact is there is as much protein per ounce in asparagus and spinach as there is in eggs. I do admit that animal protein is considered a “whole” protein, meaning that everything your body needs to make use of it is already in it, while with vegetable based sources you might need to combine two vegetables or a grain and vegetable in order to make use of 100% of the protein. If you are interested in some examples of performance nutrition I would check out the Thrive Diet by Brendan Brazier
http://www.brendanbrazier.com/index.html (safe)

He is an amazing triathalete who has written two serious books on athlete nutrition. Yes, it does fly in the face of the Zone/Paleo diet but It does get results. In fact one of the doctors that endorses him was an olympic athlete who co-wrote the study that is similar to the philosophy on Cross-Fit’s main page (concerning increased life span and its relation to lessened caloric intake). He has a website too -some of it is pay but his books are at any library, he addresses concerns about abstaining from meat based protein.

http://www.drfuhrman.com/ (safe)

While the paleo diet does have sound science to it, there is no accounting for how different cultures developed on different diets due to climate and environment, it only goes off of the hunter/gatherer model from one region. The truth is different cultures hunted and gathered different animals, nuts, plants etc so it might work for some genetic makeups but not all. Yes, it may be more effective, but it is not the only way.
I am not attacking those who pursue animal based protein diets, and for some people I know it works (I have seen the results) but that doesn't mean that vegetarianism and fitness are not compatible. Do some google searches on Vegan Athletes, there is a thriving community out there.

check out this list of vegan athletes

http://www.veganathlete.com/vegan_ve...n_athletes.php (safe)

(disclaimer: not all of these athletes have been vegan their whole career)

and some nutrient info:

http://www.vrg.org/nutrition/protein.htm (safe)

I come from a family of vegetarians and vegans, my 60 year old mom still rides centuries and my sister who had a baby 5 months ago is now gearing up for marathon season... the other two are professional dancers and are solid lean muscle, we have all done this on veg power. I have other vegetarian friends who are obese, but they use dairy as a meat replacement and don’t get enough protein. What I am saying is, when done properly (with limited dairy) it can be a healthy diet for some.
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