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Old 03-11-2010, 07:26 AM   #61
Trevor Shaw
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Re: Saturated Fats

Quote:
Originally Posted by Thomas Jones View Post
Am I right in saying that if I use coconut oil to cook my food that it goes orange the following day? I'm looking at the chicken I cooked last night and there's, um, orange bits on it.
I've seen that too, I'm not 100 percent sure but you may be burning the oil. Try only using it to cook at medium to medium/high temps. Don't let it smoke.
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Old 03-11-2010, 08:09 AM   #62
Thomas Jones
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Re: Saturated Fats

Thanks Trevor. Hmmm, was cooking my chicken and veg in it last night. I always feel that if I cook the veg at medium temps they go all soggy after a while.
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Old 03-12-2010, 06:49 AM   #63
Darryl Shaw
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Re: Saturated Fats

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Originally Posted by Christie Lawson View Post
It's sorta old news that Saturated Fats are not the cause of high tris.
According to my copy of Introduction to Nutrition and Metabolism by David A. Bender -

* LDL cholesterol increases by a factor related to 2x the intake of saturated fat.

* LDL cholesterol decreases by a factor related to 1x the intake of unsaturated fat.

* LDL cholesterol increases by a factor related to the square root on cholesterol intake.

In simple terms that means that saturated fats increase cholesterol levels twice as much as unsaturated fats can decrease them.

So..... yer wrong.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Christie Lawson
Hell, look at what the mainstream *gasp* AHA says? That a diet high in carbohydrates are the cause of high triglycerides, which in turn can lead to diseases such as diabetes.

"Many people have high triglyceride levels due to being overweight/obese, physical inactivity, cigarette smoking, excess alcohol consumption and/or a diet very high in carbohydrates (60 percent of more of calories). High triglycerides are a lifestyle-related risk factor; however, underlying diseases or genetic disorders can be the cause.

A triglyceride level of 150 mg/dL or higher is one of the risk factors of metabolic syndrome. Metabolic syndrome increases the risk for heart disease and other disorders, including diabetes."

Taken from http://www.americanheart.org/present...3#Triglyceride (WFS)at very bottom of page.

A diet rich in carbohydrates? Not much of a shocker to me personally.
This was last posted in July of last year. Fairly recent.
Bottom line: the "SFA is bad" argument is a very old school idea that is quickly falling by the wayside.

Seek more information from this link...it is WFS
I'm surprised they didn't make a distinction between simple sugars which do tend to increase plasma triglyceride concentrations when consumed to excess and complex starchy carbohydrates which rarely pose a risk to health.

I guess whoever wrote that mustn't have read the AHA Scientific Statement: Sugar and Cardiovascular Disease (wfs) which states that "American Heart Association dietary guidelines stress consumption of fruits, vegetables, grains, and complex carbohydrates so that nutritional requirements for vitamins and minerals may be met by whole foods rather than by foods that are supplemented with vitamins."
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Old 03-12-2010, 08:00 AM   #64
Darryl Shaw
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Re: Saturated Fats

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Originally Posted by John Jaeckel View Post
Incidence of type 2 Diabetes is growing exponentially in India and China, stands to reason that rates of CVD will rise in subsequent years and decades.
I agree. It's sad that they're giving up their traditional healthy diets for McDonalds and Coke.

There's an interesting paper on this here.

Quote:
Originally Posted by John Jaeckel
I don't disagree with you that there is no argument for saturated fat per se. Where I disagree with you is in making saturated fat the bad guy.
Again I agree, saturated fats aren't the bad guy. Indeed if you were to follow a diet that contained no saturated fats you'd have to cut some extremely nutritious foods from your diet which is why the current advice is to keep your saturated fat intake as low as possible while consuming a nutritionally edequate diet.

Quote:
Originally Posted by John Jaeckel
That line of thought is foundational to the overall mythology of the USDA Food Pyramid, fat is bad, grains are good, etc.
There's a lot of good evidence to support the view that grains, particularly in their whole form, are good for you.

Quote:
Originally Posted by John Jaeckel
Evidently, you're up on some science. And while there are no contemporary studies on the diets of our pre-agricultural ancestors, there is hard science on genetics, evolution and natural history— more than enough to tell us that modern "standards" and "recommendations" for macronutrients vis a vis optimal health are flawed when you take the broad, yet (in a bio-evolutionary sense) accurate view of the optimal human diet, especially with regard to carbohydrates and fats (regardless of saturated, Omega 3, Omega 6, etc.).
If we're going to look at our diet from an evolUtionary perspective it's worth remembering that we evolved from a long line of mostly herbivorous primates and diet high in animal fats and protein is really something quite new for our species. It should come as no surprise therefore that populations that habitually eat plant base near vegetarian diets enjoy the greater health and longevity than those eating diets high in animal fats and protein.

Hunter-gatherer diets—a different perspective.

Quote:
Originally Posted by John Jaeckel
Obesity, auto-immune disorders (again, many of which are now being scientifically linked to gluten, dairy and, yes, eggs) and type 2 diabetes are afflictions of modern man, and, in all likelihood not a consequence of ingesting saturated fats.
Obesity is increasing because more people than ever before are in a position where they can afford to eat a hypercaloric diet. There are a number of possible explanations for the current rise in auto-immune disorders, some of which relate to dietary factors and some of which don't but as yet there is no consensus.

Quote:
Originally Posted by John Jaeckel
There is mounting scientific evidence that c-reactive protein is a better indicator of one's risk of a coronary event than total serum cholesterol, LDL or HDL:LDL ratios. The "saturated fat is bad" hypothesis underlies the conventional wisdom that HDL, LDL and triglycerides are accurate predictors of heart disease risk. In fact, there is evidence that challenges the conventional wisdom that there is a cause and effect relationship between saturated fat consumption and the body's production of cholesterol.
There is always evidence that challenges the conventional wisdom, that's what makes science fun.

That said, until there is good evidence that saturated fats have little or no impact on CVD risk I see no reason to go against current advice.

Quote:
Originally Posted by John Jaeckel
And, cholesterol, even LDL and VLDL, in fact, has a positive role in human health. And it is vastly more complicated than most are led to believe.
I agree it is more complicated than most people realize, but then again as far as dietary recomendations are concerned there's no need to complicate things for people who don't generally understand or aren't interEsted in the science. As there is no dietary requirement for cholesterol I see no reason to against current advice that intakes should be kept as low as possible while consuming a nutritionally adequate diet.

Quote:
Originally Posted by John Jaeckel
The French and others who follow a true "Mediterranean" diet have actually consumed large amounts of butter, cream, beef and pork, yet they have historically low CVD rates.
There's an intersting paper on this subject here.

Quote:
Originally Posted by John Jaeckel
Also, the Japanese consume a great deal of beef in addition to seafood and sea vegetables.
The traditional Japanese diet was almost vegetarian and did not include a great deal of beef.

*All links wfs*
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Old 03-12-2010, 10:42 AM   #65
Trevor Shaw
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Re: Saturated Fats

Another interesting fact, research has shown that saturated fat is actually essential in the diet to adequately convert a-linolenic acid to the elongated omega 3 fatty acids EPA and DHA which are essential for prostaglandin formation and visual function. (Gerster 1998)
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Old 03-12-2010, 11:35 AM   #66
Arturo Garcia
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Re: Saturated Fats

WFS: http://www.westonaprice.org/The-Skinny-on-Fats.html

There is an interesting bit on Saturated Fats and it's benefits. With references too.
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Old 03-13-2010, 05:52 AM   #67
Darryl Shaw
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Re: Saturated Fats

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Originally Posted by Trevor Shaw View Post
Another interesting fact, research has shown that saturated fat is actually essential in the diet to adequately convert a-linolenic acid to the elongated omega 3 fatty acids EPA and DHA which are essential for prostaglandin formation and visual function. (Gerster 1998)
I'm guessing that you're referring to this study (wfs) which did not conclude that there is any requirment for a dietary source of saturated fats.

So I'll say it again for what will hopefully be the last time, at least in this thread <sigh>; your body can synthesize all the fats it needs apart from the n-3 and n-6 essential fatty acids so there is no dietary requirement for saturated fat.

Finally to prove that I'm not just making this **** up here's a few quotes -

Quote:
Introduction to Nutrition and Metabolism (3rd ed.) by David A. Bender.

Chapter 1 p.4 - "There is no requirement for a dietary source of fat, apart from the essential fatty acids."
Quote:
Manual of Dietetic Practice (4th ed.) by Briony Thhomas.

Section 2.3.3 p.166 - "There is no physiological requirement for dietary fat per se, only for essential fatty acids."
Quote:
Human Nutrition: A Health Perspective (2nd ed.) by Mary E. Barasi.

Chapter 5 p.79 - "Although the body can synthesize most of the fat it requires, it has been known since the early part of the twentieth century that certain of the polyunsaturated fats cannot be synthesized and must be supplied in the diet."

p. 96 - "In the case of fat there is no recognized deficiency state that develops from the absence of fat in general. The only problem arises from an absence of the essential fatty acids."
Quote:
Food Science, Nutrition and Health (7th ed.) by Michael E. J. Lean

Chapter 6 p.65 - "Apart from the EFAs, there is no dietary requirement for fat or for specific fatty acids."
Quote:
Nutrition In Clinical Practice (2nd ed.) by David L. Katz

Chapter 2 p.16 - "Most fatty acids can be synthesized endogenously from excess energy of any source or from other fatty acids; those that are required for metabolic functions and cannot be synthesized endogenously are essential nutrients. Certain fatty acids of the n-3 and n-6 polyunsaturated classes are referred to as essential fatty acids (EFAs)."
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Old 03-13-2010, 10:41 AM   #68
Rene Forestier
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Re: Saturated Fats

Quote:
Originally Posted by Darryl Shaw View Post
I'm guessing that you're referring to this study (wfs) which did not conclude that there is any requirment for a dietary source of saturated fats.

So I'll say it again for what will hopefully be the last time, at least in this thread <sigh>; your body can synthesize all the fats it needs apart from the n-3 and n-6 essential fatty acids so there is no dietary requirement for saturated fat.

Finally to prove that I'm not just making this **** up here's a few quotes -
Yeah, I hope you've said it for the last time, too...sigh. (I don't like being rude, but comments like that show your arrogance as a self-proclaimed guardian of reason).

Fats, incl sat fats, prepared traditionally from quality sources is an important part of a healthy diet.

Avoid trans-fats and overly processed oils.

Cook with fat and don't worry about putting butter on your veggies, etc. Try making your own lard from pastured pork fat...enjoy them.
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Old 03-14-2010, 11:41 AM   #69
Trevor Shaw
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Re: Saturated Fats

I guess I'm curious why Darryl keeps pushing an argument that no one is debating.. No one is saying you are wrong bro, we are just saying that sat. fats aren't as bad as once thought and can be a part of a healthy diet. To keep saying over and over again that the body can produce its own and saturated fats aren't essential is like beating a dead horse at this point. We all know that, and are not arguing. So yes please let it be the last time!
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Old 03-14-2010, 04:18 PM   #70
David Joseph Danaher
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Re: Saturated Fats

Darryl,

If what you have posted is true (there seems to be some hefty support from your citations), then it leads to this question: What are the best sources for EFAs and how much is needed on a daily basis? I'm taking fish oil with high concentrations of EPA and DHA. But I doubt that's enough. So maybe I should lay off the butter, but what about other "good" fatty foods (nuts, avocado, olives, etc.) Are those bad in your book? What are the sources generally accepted and what are the upper/lower limits for their consumption?


P.S. Are you a supporter of United or City?
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