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Old 12-01-2009, 07:06 PM   #41
Paul Kirk
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Re: request

Easy enough solution Robert but it still does not get to the root of my problem with the sudden shift in policy. I rarely post, but have spent a good amount of time the past three years learning from a solid back and forth on these boards. I would just like to see that continue.
 
Old 12-01-2009, 07:08 PM   #42
Barry Cooper
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Re: request

Paul,

What part of the "debate" is being stifled? You have to break this thing down into pieces, as I tried to do above. If you have questions as to what the range of opinions are on x, y, or z, you can ask those questions. There are no barriers to that. In fact, this is a great place to do it. You will note that there are a lot of people in the Nutrition forum who, for whatever reason, do not follow the Zone Diet. Some like intermittent fasting; you see gallon of milk a day people; unweighed Paleo people, etc.

What is not being facilitated is rendering opinions from a distance about people you don't know, who have a history of personal disagreements, the exact nature of which is not germane to learning how to become a better athlete.

Would you ask your boss just what he and his wife were arguing about at the company dinner? Does that affect your ability to do your job? Yes, it was a public spectacle, but settled to some lesser or greater extent between those concerned.

Robb has a blog. Greg Everett has a blog. Both of them are, as far as I know, still affiliates, still teaching CrossFit their way, and still plugging along.

There is no cover up. CrossFit HQ, based on having conducted many hundreds of training seminars involving many thousands of people, has developed a pedagogy which they like. When you are training that many people, you have to have a plan and a template. That some of the people involved are not fully in agreement on every detail is inevitable. This doesn't make them unresponsive, merely in disagreement.

For those of you with jobs, what happens when you keep telling the boss he's wrong in front of other employees? Does it really matter if you are right or wrong? All of you can do what you want. All of you can follow the training prescriptions that make the most sense to you. No one is stopping you.

But simply because you think you have a better solution does not empower you to dictate to people who disagree, and then accuse them of intransigency. That is the pot calling the kettle black. The Zone has been in play here for a long time, and there is nothing wrong with it, if you add fat as needed.
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Old 12-01-2009, 07:10 PM   #43
Robert D Taylor Jr
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Re: request

Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul Kirk View Post
Easy enough solution Robert but it still does not get to the root of my problem with the sudden shift in policy. I rarely post, but have spent a good amount of time the past three years learning from a solid back and forth on these boards. I would just like to see that continue.

Paul,

I understand that. I learn a lot from the boards too. What is engaging this debate on these boards going to help you with as CFer/exercise guy (not as an affiliate)?
 
Old 12-01-2009, 07:28 PM   #44
Stephen Lewis Romer
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Re: request

To disagree is different have to tear down. Maybe many us are asking questions here because no one from CFHQ is making any statements. Maybe we are asking questions because we love CF because we love CF. Maybe the people who paid for nutrition cert before Robb Wolf was fired have a vested interest on who will give the nutrition cert.

Maybe just Maybe we are just people who care.
 
Old 12-01-2009, 08:59 PM   #45
Jay Ashman
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Re: request

Quote:
Originally Posted by Barry Cooper View Post
Paul,

What part of the "debate" is being stifled? You have to break this thing down into pieces, as I tried to do above. If you have questions as to what the range of opinions are on x, y, or z, you can ask those questions. There are no barriers to that. In fact, this is a great place to do it. You will note that there are a lot of people in the Nutrition forum who, for whatever reason, do not follow the Zone Diet. Some like intermittent fasting; you see gallon of milk a day people; unweighed Paleo people, etc.

What is not being facilitated is rendering opinions from a distance about people you don't know, who have a history of personal disagreements, the exact nature of which is not germane to learning how to become a better athlete.

Would you ask your boss just what he and his wife were arguing about at the company dinner? Does that affect your ability to do your job? Yes, it was a public spectacle, but settled to some lesser or greater extent between those concerned.

Robb has a blog. Greg Everett has a blog. Both of them are, as far as I know, still affiliates, still teaching CrossFit their way, and still plugging along.

There is no cover up. CrossFit HQ, based on having conducted many hundreds of training seminars involving many thousands of people, has developed a pedagogy which they like. When you are training that many people, you have to have a plan and a template. That some of the people involved are not fully in agreement on every detail is inevitable. This doesn't make them unresponsive, merely in disagreement.

For those of you with jobs, what happens when you keep telling the boss he's wrong in front of other employees? Does it really matter if you are right or wrong? All of you can do what you want. All of you can follow the training prescriptions that make the most sense to you. No one is stopping you.

But simply because you think you have a better solution does not empower you to dictate to people who disagree, and then accuse them of intransigency. That is the pot calling the kettle black. The Zone has been in play here for a long time, and there is nothing wrong with it, if you add fat as needed.
and thus Barry said it perfectly and what other people don't realize... as an employee of CrossFit you follow a certain set of standards, protocols and ideas they want to be heard in their certs. If you don't like those ideas in the nutrition cert, learn about Paleo, Atkins, Anabolic, etc.. you don't have to get it. That goes for the people running those certs.

If a guy at a Level 1 cert wasn't teaching the SDHP because he thinks its a stupid move and in every cert and every chance he got he would talk against it, don't you think HQ would sack him from the certs?

HQ teaches a certain thing and gives us free reign to run our affiliates as needed, they funny part is that they don't intervene and tell us that we must call it a certain name, do certain things, act a certain way... its our gym and our name and we do our own workouts.

But in their certs they have every right to tell the instructors what exactly they want presented... and I said it before, I think Robb is a genius, and I am all about the Paleo Diet over the Zone Diet. I am a very non-conventional CrossFitter, I don't follow mainsite, never have, and I have a extensive background in strength and other sports, I use CrossFit as a major tool in my arsenal... does that make me an enemy of mainsite? No... but if I was to teach a cert I would have to do it their way or not at all..

That is the underlying issue. you can't work for a company and do it your own way.

I support Robb for wanting to leave and he will do his best on his own, but CF wants things done a certain way and they have the right to do that, and people should understand that.
 
Old 12-01-2009, 11:11 PM   #46
Travis Earp
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Re: request

Quote:
Originally Posted by Barry Cooper View Post
For those of you with jobs, what happens when you keep telling the boss he's wrong in front of other employees? Does it really matter if you are right or wrong? All of you can do what you want. All of you can follow the training prescriptions that make the most sense to you. No one is stopping you.
It depends. Are you telling the guy he's wrong because you have years of experience on the subject matter AND you have the ability to benefit his clientele base significantly by having that boss implement said practices? Or are you just some ***** spouting off because you feel entitled?

Every single person at the summit has run a successful business for years. Greg has a ton of Olympic lifting instruction under his belt, two books and a successful business and all you have to do is look at Robb's web page to see that he has plenty of experience on the subject. Not to mention, both of these guys have ties to Crossfit dating back to before most of the current HQ team were even associated with @F (apart from Couch).

A great employer openly accepts criticism of his/her product and in turn makes their product into something spectacular. If they are resistant to change, as has been demonstrated by HQ, then things start to fall apart. Blind leading the blind, and all that. It doesn't take much to see that if you have some kind of dissenting opinion at Crossfit, you get silenced pretty quickly. Unfortunately it has taken a rabid ex-navy SEAL to stir the pot enough to get a handful people to notice. It won't be long before another incident, though. So if you can't open your eyes this time around, then just wait for the next one.

Quote:
But simply because you think you have a better solution does not empower you to dictate to people who disagree, and then accuse them of intransigency. That is the pot calling the kettle black.
I think you have a hard time seeing things clearly because you're so engrossed in everything that is Greg Glassman. If you have a better solution, then by all means, tell them. Fact is/was these guys cannot take a single ounce of criticism and go ape**** as soon as someone says something. Then it all gets swept under the rug over here at crossfit.com. Revoking affiliation for dissenting opinions and a summit for affiliates by affiliates? Give me a break.

Quote:
The Zone has been in play here for a long time, and there is nothing wrong with it, if you add fat as needed.
Which also makes it not the Zone, by the way... But, go ahead and ask "Dr." Barry Sears about that when you go to his nutrition cert...
 
Old 12-01-2009, 11:38 PM   #47
Joe Cavazos
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Re: request

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Originally Posted by Travis Earp View Post
@F (apart from Couch)
Welp there goes the thread. Goodnight everybody!
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Old 12-02-2009, 12:02 AM   #48
Katherine Derbyshire
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Re: request

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Originally Posted by Travis Earp View Post
Which also makes it not the Zone, by the way... But, go ahead and ask "Dr." Barry Sears about that when you go to his nutrition cert...
He is a doctor. He has a PhD in biochemistry.

But yes, it would be interesting to hear his take on the various Zone variants.

My question would be more fundamental, though. Anecdotal experience as presented on the boards suggests that the Zone prescription is inadequate for Crossfittters. So how would *he* tweak it?

Katherine
 
Old 12-02-2009, 04:20 AM   #49
Camille Lore
 
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Re: request

Well, we tried. Again, it broke down.
 
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