C&J Form Check

[Ron Hendrix]

Not pulling myself under the bar, and my third pull kinda sucks since my traps sucked, therefore my shrug sucked...

155 C&J (wfs)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QKxnBXK1MXI

175 C&J (wfs)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3S6M7rThFec

185 C&J (wfs)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tFz9UGqBiCU

195 C&J (wfs)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tEYepU-uuyI

Thanks for any feedback, I appreciate it.

[Steven Webster]

You need to go through four stages of progression.

1. position
2. movement
3. speed
4. load

You have skipped the first two. You cannot achieve correct movements from incorrect positions. At least get some reading material; at least get Greg Everetts book on olympic lifting.

It may prove very difficult to ingrain correct movement patterns, once you've developed bad habits.

Get it right!

[Ron Hendrix]

Webster, thanks, I'm actually getting that book as a father's day present.

As for position, I realize that my back isn't completely flat, but that's the only thing that I can see based off of my limited experience. I know from listening to a lot of videos from Ripp and Burg that I'm probably starting the 2nd pull to early (or maybe even too late in some cases which is why I'm jumping back). I also know I need to get under the bar faster. Anything else I'm missing?

[Robert Callahan]

You are setting yourself in a reasonable position to pull from, but then you allow your *** to shoot way up before the weight breaks the ground. Force your chest to lead the movement up and do not rush the first pull, it will be slow but that is ok, we are just using it to get into position for the second pull.

Also your receiving of the bar is atrocious. You are actually just catching the bar with your hands, which is a recipe for missed reps and injury. You need to rotate your elbows ALL the way around the bar, and do it 3x faster. The bar should be landing fully on your shoulders, which are shoved out to create a nice little landing cushion. If your hands are taking ANY weight then you are not doing it correctly.

For dramatic effect here is a video of Greg E. Doing a clean and jerk without using his hands for receiving the bar. http://vimeo.com/3872813 (WFS)

[Ron Hendrix]

Robert, makes sense, I knew I wasn't in the same catch position that I usually am in a FS, would dropping lower allow me to get my elbows around faster and more aggresively?

I can't wait to get my hands on Greg E.'s book already, wish I had the cash to go to an Oly cert...all in due time I suppose.

[Ron Hendrix]

Originally Posted by Robert Callahan

You are setting yourself in a reasonable position to pull from, but then you allow your *** to shoot way up before the weight breaks the ground. Force your chest to lead the movement up and do not rush the first pull, it will be slow but that is ok, we are just using it to get into position for the second pull.

I think I understand what you're saying, the more I watch the videos, the more it looks like the bar is traveling to far away from me, which is a byproduct of me rising my butt to fast, right?

My bar path sucks *** too...

More homework for me to do I suppose...

[Robert Callahan]

Originally Posted by Ron Hendrix

Robert, makes sense, I knew I wasn't in the same catch position that I usually am in a FS, would dropping lower allow me to get my elbows around faster and more aggresively?

You are pulling the bar more than high enough to receive it where you are, so I don't think dropping lower will help much. What you need to do is let go of the bar. As you finish the second pull and move into the third pull you are actively pulling yourself under the bar. During this phase your grip loosens considerably and is only maintained to help speed the rotation of the elbows around the bar.

Greg's book has some drills to help with this that will be hard to describe without some visuals... one being the Scarecrow clean/snatch, but I can't find any video of these at the moment so you may just have to wait for the book to arrive....

Originally Posted by Ron Hendrix

I think I understand what you're saying, the more I watch the videos, the more it looks like the bar is traveling to far away from me, which is a byproduct of me rising my butt to fast, right?

That is correct. A good way to fix this is to slow the first pull way down. Start light and do a very slow deadlift. Then when you get to mid-thigh, where the second pull starts, go directly into a hanging clean. Then as you you get used to that start to speed up the first pull a little at a time. This way your body learns the correct movement without worrying about going fast

[Ron Hendrix]

Thanks man, now I'm looking forward to getting Greg's book even more!

[Derek Hui]

Firstly - very strong, you make 195 look easy - with some good form you'll be C&J-ing ALOT more!

Good advice given from Robert.

You've already noted that the arms are doing all the pulling and you're not pulling yourself beneath the bar. Try some full hang cleans to get the feel of actively pulling your body to meet the bar.

I will also work more on the Jerk, try splitting wider with more explosion, your split seems a little too small. Check out some olympic youtubes videos - you'll see how they're 'bang'ing their feet very far apart for a more stable base.

All the best with your training!

[Ryan Stitt]

Originally Posted by Derek Hui

Firstly - very strong, you make 195 look easy - with some good form you'll be C&J-ing ALOT more!

Good advice given from Robert.

You've already noted that the arms are doing all the pulling and you're not pulling yourself beneath the bar. Try some full hang cleans to get the feel of actively pulling your body to meet the bar.

I will also work more on the Jerk, try splitting wider with more explosion, your split seems a little too small. Check out some olympic youtubes videos - you'll see how they're 'bang'ing their feet very far apart for a more stable base.

All the best with your training!

No use beating around the bush...the split jerk was not a split jerk, nor was it a push jerk. You are caught in the middle...which I think has all the detriments to either form, but none of the positivies of either form.

In the split jerk, the hips denote the mid line. The front foot and back foot should travel approximately the same distance forward and backward. I feel that the feet should also spread to a width slightly less than the squat position or equal to it for stability to the left and right. The front leg should be situated such that the upper leg is above parallel to the floor (approximately 30 degrees above parallel) and the lower portion of the front leg should be perpendicular to the floor. The rear leg should be extended almost fully (slight knee bend). There should be a slight knee bend with the ball of the foot pressing into the ground and the hips actively being pressed forward to stabilize the trunk.

I am 100% positive that Greg's book describes this infinitely more clear and provides visuals.

You are obviously strong handling the weight the way you are. With correct technique and improved speed, you will be able to move some really big weight.

As far as your power cleans go, you do accelerate at the point where the second pull initiates, which is good. However, the advice of Robert and the video of G. Everett are great!