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Exercises Movements, technique & proper execution

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Old 01-28-2007, 09:35 AM   #1
Michael Tong
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Gymnastic-based exercises are very tough for me, much harder than Olift movements and other exercises. So, I wanted to put a "to do" list together for me to work on progressions. However, I wanted to ask the community what are the core/essential gymnastic-based exercises? What core set of exercises will give me the best "bang-for-the-buck" in gaining overall strength and fitness, and be buildable skills for other exercises?

Progressions I am working on are MUs and HSPUs. I think I would like to add 2-3 more to work on. Should I work planche, L-sits, front lever, pistols, or???? I am looking to hit the entire body, or as much as possible with 4-5 movements total.
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Old 01-28-2007, 04:08 PM   #2
Nick Cummings
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This is an excellent question. I would think some of the first would be press to handstand, hspu, muscle-up, l-sit, front lever, planche, pistols, rolls, cartwheels, and flips (many of which Michael mentioned). Anyone have any to add or suggestions regarding order?
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Old 01-28-2007, 04:23 PM   #3
Nick Cummings
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http://www.drillsandskills.com/articles/

For some additional info. Safe link.
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Old 01-28-2007, 04:53 PM   #4
Steven Low
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There's not really any core exercises I feel like honestly. Once you get something and find a better progression, the other one becomes obselete. Muscle ups while hard for the general populace are pretty much obselete once you start training front levers, iron crosses and other moves that tax your muscles more. For example, I rarely do muscle ups ever anymore since I began training the iron cross, but I can still bust out 10+ in a row on rings relatively easily.

Obviously though I would say to go in the proper order of progressions.

1. SKILL moves are the ones you would do before workouts as they require a fair-small amount of strength and are mainly about technique. Learning these will help you garner more awareness about your body and help you progress to better techniques. Some examples of skills are handstands, press handstands, cartwheels/roundoffs, rolls, flips, etc. More advanced stuff would probably include connecting some tumbling if you have access to a gym, doing moves on rings/pbars/hbar/pommels, etc.

2. Secondly, there are the strength moves which you should incorporate in your workouts or the WOD which include things like muscle ups, long L-sit holds, HSPUs, basically any type of rings work and their progressions, back levers, planches, front levers, pistols, etc. More advanced stuff would include rings HSPUs, the upper versions of planche progression, planche progression on rings, iron cross, and then the insane stuff like inverted cross, maltese, etc., lol.
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Old 01-28-2007, 05:34 PM   #5
Roy Williams
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Michael you beat me to it - I was about to make the same thread.

I have had no gymnastic training and have nowhere nearby that does adult beginner gymnastics.

My goals are to develop the body control/controlled tension to allow me to perform the planche, front lever and unsupported handstands. The muscle up is somewhere out there in my list of having someday but I think I’ve got enough on my plate with those.

What I was considering is to attempt Pavel's gtg work to develop the one arm push-up and pre or post workout technique development using planks, L hangs/sits, arches & hollows.

http://www.powerathletesmag.com/pages/frontlever.htm
and
http://www.dragondoor.com/articler/mode3/36/
(Both work/family safe)

After I've developed the one arm push-up I'd like to develop the handstand and hspu and incorporate Coach Sommer’s planche and front lever progressions into the technique sessions.

I'm considering following Coach Sommers recommendation for working up to 2minutes for each progression - e.g. after developing a 2 minute L sit then work to a 2 minute V sit, after developing a 2 min plank go to an elevated or one arm plank. Does this sound feasible or are these particular exercises considered to be pointless after a certain amount of time?

Also what measure of proficiency is used to determine when practise of these exercises should be moved to rings?
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Old 01-28-2007, 05:41 PM   #6
Nick Cummings
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Steven, I was asking what the proper order of progessions was. It makes sense that you stop practicing muscle-ups when you can do iron crosses but I am 2-3 years before that point. Could you link to the proper order of progressions or spell it out for me? Are there certain checkpoints at which one should start on another move or do you start working on say 5 arbitrary movements and just see where you can take it?
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Old 01-29-2007, 12:51 AM   #7
Blair Robert Lowe
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Roy, a V-sit or manna is not just a strong version of an L-sit or a progression afterwards. Really it's more of the ability to have good pike compression by using the hip flexor strength and flexibility to add a long with a good support and tricep strength.
To put an example to this. Let's say say one trains to do a 100 second L sit and wants to progress to a V-sit. Eventually they'll have the ability to just lean back and have their toes go higher. Perhaps maybe even leaning back far enough to go into something like a victorian ( support with body horizontal ). More than likely, they'll just get out of balance and fall on their back.
To get that v-sit requires the hip flexor strength and flexibility to put your chin on your shins with no space between, with little effort. To get into manna, requires that plus killer triceps and active shoulder flexibility.

I dunno let's just say 10 and 20.

20 seconds on a parallette with either a support or L-sit before taking it to rings. 10 regular dips on pbars with elbows in before taking it to rings. One could go the %BW route on supports and dips on rings as well. The same approach for handstand could be done in a similar amount of time ( or BW% by legs on straps ).
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Old 01-29-2007, 12:59 AM   #8
Blair Robert Lowe
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Michael, the only skill I can think off hand that would engage all muscle groups is a back handspring. Unfortunately, a back handspring is not nearly as intense as a say a cross or back tuck. Darn sure, an oly lift is more intense than a back handspring; no matter what the quality of a back handspring ( say an elite backhandspring ).

A lot of movements like a strength hold ( lever or cross ) will involve engaging muscle groups like the core, hips and legs while performing the maneuver.
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Old 01-29-2007, 01:13 AM   #9
Blair Robert Lowe
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5 movements? I'm gonna break this up into 3 posts to be really annoying.

free handstand

L sit

levers

this is where I get stuck. We've done pushing, pulling and balance.

let's say cartwheel

pistols

Now those sound simple but as Stephen alluded the progressions in gymnastics are never-ending. Well, mostly.

Free handstands start with handstands against a wall or with a spot/self assist. It gets into lower down to the ground by hip control or planching down. From there it get's into pressing up or balancing on apparatus and strange surfaces or walking/hopping

L sit start with just a simple support on pbars or parallettes. Maybe with knees tucked, one leg out, etc. They progress to Vsits and mannas with strengthening and stretching or pressing to handstand.

Levers start off with simple pulling movements like body pulls at horizontal while working on knees to elbows and skin the cats. This turns into pullups, hopping pullups and your regular levers.

Cartwheels. Most people who aren't involved in gymnastics will learn the ability to do one and think it's done at that. A round off comes from there but I'm approaching that skill. How about a cartwheel on a line/beam. Then it turns into aerials, au batido, OAH, helps a bit with the inverted orientation of side summis, or capoeira kicks/escapes.

Pistols. Start with squats and do simple things like lowering down to your butt on one leg. Rocking back and standing up one leg with swing motion. Pistol jumps/switches, etc
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Old 01-29-2007, 01:48 AM   #10
Blair Robert Lowe
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Ohh, I guess I'm gonna do 4.

What movements I'd learn for just general enrichment would be, beyond those 5 above. In fact, crossfit encourages them in their approach on gymnastics and we went over them at the CF gymnastics seminars in Novato. Some of them are basic life skills everyone should now.

Crossfit incorporates the basic parallel bar skills and ring strength moves ( which also like skin the cats encourage shoulder girdle flexibility and inverted orientation ). They don't really hit pommel or uneven/high bar. Those are a lot harder to come by as well. As well they go over basic stationary FX. Handstands and cartwheels that lead to plances and one arm handstands or handstand walking.

They don't really go over rolling, but did at the seminars. Rolling and the breakfalls are there so you don't break yourself doing the skillwork on FX or apparatus. For those that do parkour or wrestling, or sports where you're gonna fall shoulders rolls are good. I've used shoulder rolls while skiing or boarding to come right up after a fall.

Basic balance work. Yeah, it probably sounds dumb and lame to most people till you see an adult get on a beam and fall on their because they're afraid of the height or have crappy balance. If you get good balance and spacial awareness/orientation you might be able to save yourself on a really bad fall ( be it from standing or something like cliffdiving or getting thrown in the air ).

Roger's articles go over most of these as well as some of the CF journals, articles and clips. Round it out with some of Jesse's breakfall/rolling stuff and you should be gold.

Nick, here's a basic ring strength progression.

Hanging L on rings.

Ring pullup, ring support.

Skin the cat.

Holding the inverted position on rings, first tucked/piked, then extended. This can also be done on a low set of parallel bars or rings like Tyler's which you can hang under and kick up into invert from the ground.

Tucked support and L sit on rings. Turn out the rings by opening up the elbow angle.

From invert hang on rings, pull your heels as close to your butt as possible. Squeeze your butt. Lower down into a back lever. This is a little more tough than a tucked back lever as that doesn't teach you to squeeze your butt and legs

Invert hang on rings. Tuck and lower hips to horizontal. Or Pull from long hang to a knees to elbows. Eventually do straight body pull to invert and lower. Straight body pull to back lever and then to front lever and down is a good. Or do a straight body pull to invert, lower to front lever then pull to flexed arm hang and back to front lever ( ice cream maker )

Once you can do a full ROM pullup and dip you can start working muscle-ups. 10 is good but it's really about being able to pull to your breastbone and dip from there. Oh, yeah false grip helps sooo much. The skin on the crook of your wrist will hate you.

Learn how to do a forward and backward roll from support to hang. So you don't tear off your shoulders when you fall from handstand or shoulderstand ( which you should've learned on parallettes prior ).

Once you have a good support and L, work pressing to shoulderstand and back to L. Or do it and then climb to handstand.

By now, you can do a back lever, hold a shoulderstand, and muscle up besides doing an L sit and a good support.

Work on kipping on rings or backwards roll from standing underneath the rings or hang.

Swinging in support is a thing I should've mentioned earlier. Oh well. Start playing with opening up towards cross or use a self assist spot. Perhaps work from jumping to support from a stand underneath rings by butterflying up through the cross. Lower from support through cross down to stand.

L sit press to handstand. Or L press to tuck planche. Do it in reverse. L to straddle L. Etc.

Pull to back lever, down to front lever, then pull to muscle-up.

I could add a butterfly, but you'll need to learn an uprise first. These progressions don't really involve swing. It's sort of like a straight arm CF body kip swing to support. Except it goes through cross. Once you got a kip, go for it.

That's about all I feel like posting. Should be good for 5-10 years. There is other stuff like planches, maltese, and connecting the strength moves which involves lowering down or pressing up through them.

Wee, no ring set tomorrow...I think.




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