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Old 09-14-2004, 09:26 AM   #1
Paul Kayley
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http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=pubmed&dopt=Abstra ct&list_uids=10367332

Here The Zone principles are called into question. My personal findings are that complete, rather than partial partitioning have the most noticable effect upon performance.
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Old 09-14-2004, 12:51 PM   #2
Paul Symes
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So what would you recommend, something like massive eating?

I'm suprised that so many people here can do such a demanding form of training on so few carbs and so few calories. I'm keeping an open mind though, I'm trying to forget everything I thought I knew and leap into this
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Old 09-14-2004, 01:38 PM   #3
Larry Lindenman
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CF athletes have a tendency to use the Zone 40 30 30 until their body fat levels drop below 6% and then institute the "athletes zone" which ups the amount of healthy fat blocks (nuts, seeds, flax oil, Udo's choise, fish oil, etc.). They up the fat blocks until bodyfat stabilizes with no weight gain. The extra fat really ups the Kcals for the week. There is a lot of experimentation with the method. I look at it as you should know what your consuming and should have a base line (40 30 30); once you know that, experiment with one macronutrient at a time (raising and lowering) until you get the results your looking for.
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Old 09-15-2004, 05:49 PM   #4
Barry Cooper
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That study is from 2000. It isn't at all clear what the actual evidence is upon which it is based. Rhetorically, they use a lot of scientific language to in effect say "according to what we've read, this shouldn't work". That is a BS approach.

Additionally, as Larry says, Barry Sears' recommendation is to increase fat intake to meet actual caloric requirements, which fact is ignored. In effect, they are jousting at an imaginary windmill.

I am consistently amazed at the lack of attention to the details of the Zone diet. People imagine some sort of image of it, then burst the bubble they have imagined, which has no actual referent in reality.

Adequate protein, adequate carbs, tons of vegetable and fruit phytonutrients, and sufficient calories for performance. What's not to like?
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Old 09-16-2004, 05:02 PM   #5
Robert Wolf
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This can be a bit frustrating.


Barry Sears does not make it clear that once one has achieved a low bodyfat level one MUST increase caloric intake, ideally with monounsaturated fat. Virtually every critique of the zone involves Pinheads disecting his program (they inevitably forget to factor in the 1/2 block of fat associated with most protiens) and finding it woefully lacking in calories. Which, over time, it would be for a hard training athlete. This is damn silly and I think I will write to their website and request that they give this fact a bit more airplay.

John Berardi (I really like his work BTW) just re-vamped his Massive Eating articles with Massive Eating:Reloaded. It loooks a whole bunch like the Athletes Zone with the main differences being that he recomends more protien overall and he has one shift more carbs to the post work-out period. Likely not bad ideas! How much of a difference would this make? I'm really not sure, but I can build a great arguement either way. The distinction boarders on hairsplitting IMO but it is a place for easy experimentation.
Robb
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Old 09-16-2004, 05:56 PM   #6
Roy Taylor
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Robb,

In MTZ, Sears DID mention that once one's abdominals are clearly visible(i.e. low body fat) then it is time to start adding fat to the diet.

Do you have a link to Massive Eating: reloaded??

Cheers

Roy
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Old 09-16-2004, 07:02 PM   #7
Jonathon Edward
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http://www.johnberardi.com/articles/...ating_rl_1.htm

http://www.johnberardi.com/articles/...ating_rl_2.htm

-Jonathon
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Old 09-21-2004, 11:01 AM   #8
Shane Andrews
 
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Hi all,

Here is another study from Entez-PubMed, disagreeing with Zone protocols. Noted the study is only tested over a week's time. FYI...
www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=pubmed&dopt=Abstract&li st _uids=11834107
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Old 09-21-2004, 11:49 AM   #9
Larry Lindenman
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Sad that the authors are making sweeping recommendations based upon such a limited study, 8 people for 7 days, endurance testing (they recommend the zone diet is not good for "athletes").
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