CrossFit Discussion Board  

Go Back   CrossFit Discussion Board > CrossFit Forum > Exercises
CrossFit Home Forum Site Rules CrossFit FAQ Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Exercises Movements, technique & proper execution

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 01-21-2005, 03:59 PM   #1
Ron Nelson
Banned Ron Nelson is offline
 
Profile:
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Anaheim  CA
Posts: 1,199
OK, I've found myself in the unlikely position of coaching cross-country this year. Not being a runner, this may be a challenge. My thoughts are to start my kids on a scaled down WOD for a while and introduce them to the O-lifts via PVC (I'm addicted to PVC after being coached by Mike B.!).
I figure 2, maybe 3 days of run training and the rest with good, high-intensity, WOD's should be good training. They are jr. high kids, so I don't want to kill them.
I'm also going to listen to Dan John's advice on water and the track athlete as well as his advice in coaching beginners as some of these kids have only run in their PE classes.
So, CF community, any suggestions? Especially in the run training area. Their races are 2 1/2 miles in jr. high. High schools run the 5K. Just so you know.
Thanks for the help, y'all!
  Reply With Quote
Old 01-21-2005, 04:42 PM   #2
Eugene R. Allen
Affiliate Eugene R. Allen is offline
 
Eugene R. Allen's Avatar
 
Profile:
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Tacoma  Washington
Posts: 1,715
Ron - At the risk of sounding obvious, running will certainly fit in there someplace. For most of the Jr. HS kids 2.5 miles will actually be a pretty substantial distance to run. You will need to gently work your way up to over-distance runs of perhaps as much as 4 miles...depending on the training tolerance of your kids. Your first assessment will be to make sure they can cover the distance. That will give them confidence and allow them to put their mind on finishing well rather than just finishing.

Because it is cross country you will definately have to make your way out onto some trails and get them used to rocks, holes, off camber trails, climbs, descents, obstacle avoidance and all the other little twists x-country runners have to face. Remind them when they are running hills to push their hips forward to help carry them up hills. Advise the parents to get them good shoes from a reputable running store where then can be fitted to shoes appropriate to their type of feet and running style.

During your trail runs throw in games like the Indian run. Whoever is last in line passes the rest of the group and moves to the front. Once in front the new last person takes off. Practice pacing by having the kids estimate how fast it will take them to run a particular course. Same course for everyone but each kid will estimate their finish time and then run the course (without a watch) and try to come in as close to their predicted time as possible. Have some prize announced in advanced for the 3 runners who come closest to their prediction.

Lots of books on the subject in the bookstores. Anything by Jack Daniels is fabulous. To help develop team spirit come up with a team name if the school doesn't have one already. If they have a team name and the team thinks its lame make up a nick name along with team nick names for each of the kids.

Some track intervals will be important too. Break the kids down by ability into three groups based on speed. Determine a pace for each of the groups so that you know how long it will take each to complete two laps. If it takes them 4 minutes to run the 600, the send time will be every 8 minutes. The faster you go, the longer your rest.

Do drills on the grass...butt kickers, high knees, skips, all of which are designed to practice good running form. You also have hill drills, overspeed downhill drills, stair running for strength, ladders...there is a lot to coaching runners. Read a lot, take notes and PREPARE YOUR WOROUTS IN ADVANCE.

Time what they do and record their progress. They will love seeing their time drops. Keep them hydrated. Kids won't think of that.

You're going to have a great time.
  Reply With Quote
Old 01-21-2005, 08:37 PM   #3
Eugene R. Allen
Affiliate Eugene R. Allen is offline
 
Eugene R. Allen's Avatar
 
Profile:
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Tacoma  Washington
Posts: 1,715
Oops - I said 600 above, I meant 800.

eug
  Reply With Quote
Old 01-22-2005, 12:53 PM   #4
Mike Donnelly
Member Mike Donnelly is offline
 
Profile:
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Yardley  Pa
Posts: 42
As usual, Eugene is right on. They just released a new and updated edition of "Daniel's Running Formula." It gets a little technical at times, but lists a lot of information about training zone for optimal Endurance, Lactate Threshold, and VO2 Max training. Even procedures for field testing an athlete's hypothetical VO2 max based on time trials.

As a miserable highschool cross country running, I now often wish I has access to Crossfit training, the Daniels methodology, and one tenth of the toughness I've learned over the years.

Mike Donnelly
  Reply With Quote
Old 01-22-2005, 03:04 PM   #5
David Wood
Departed David Wood is offline
 
Profile:
Join Date: Oct 2002
 
Posts: 3,303
Whoo! My daughter is 13, loves Cross-Country, but I can't (yet) get her to do much CrossFit (as her father, I gotta play that card *very* gently).

Her coach is a great guy, and definitely has them doing speed work (220s, high knees, butt-kickers, short hills) . . . but nothing more. I suggested maybe a few cals? (chins / pushups) but again, I have to be pretty low-key about it. If he (the coach) would ask them to, the kids would do anything (they adore him).

I envy any kids who get Ron, or Eugene, or the other CrossFit people here as a coach.
  Reply With Quote
Old 01-22-2005, 04:19 PM   #6
Ron Nelson
Banned Ron Nelson is offline
 
Profile:
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Anaheim  CA
Posts: 1,199
This looks like a great start! Thanks for the tip on overdistance Eug! In the past, the team just ran. Nothing much in the way of GPP training. I want to throw a couple of chippers and 5 round crossfit w/o's at them to get the mental toughness/endurance up. I also like the idea of running fast 800's.
Would I be insane to throw a little kettlebell work in? Something like swings with a light kb. I thought working the hip strength would be good. I also have stretchbands to use for some squats/thrusters.
Thanks also for the plyo drills. Funny, every team I've coached has used high knees, butt kickers, lunges, and carioce's (cross over steps) in their warm ups. Now I can really put them to good use!
Thanks Dave and Mike for the input as well!
  Reply With Quote
Old 01-22-2005, 06:32 PM   #7
Eugene R. Allen
Affiliate Eugene R. Allen is offline
 
Eugene R. Allen's Avatar
 
Profile:
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Tacoma  Washington
Posts: 1,715
Ron - I went to the library in my gym and found some books that will help you very much. In addition to anything written by Jack Daniels (esp. his Daniels' Running Formula) is a must. Hal Higdon also belongs on your list. I have his How to Train which has the subtitle: The Best Programs, Workouts and Schedules for Runners of All Ages and Run Fast - How to Beat Your Best Time Every Time. Both of these books would be perfect for the kids. Michael Sandrock has written Running Tough - 75 Challenging Training Runs. Some hard core stuff in that book but you could scale it down for the kids. One last suggestion is The Running Times Guide to Breatkthrough Running with the subtitle: Definitive training and racing advice from the experts. This a very complete book that takes you from shoe selection to racing strategy.

Remember that the benefit of the CrossFit way is the intensity with which we devour our workouts. I am not all that certain you are going to get the kind of intensity out of young teenagers that CF workouts require to be effective. Still, some of the simple lifts like swings and snatches would be a wonderful exercise challenge that would really work their entire body and you can bet not too many coaches are doing strength work with their Jr. HS x-country kids. If you can sell it to them as their leg up, their secret over the competition, you may get them into the habit of intense training.

Not sure about HR stuff and kids of that age group. I am a big advocate of HR based training for endurance work but I am not sure if the parameters apply in the same way to kids as they do to adults.

  Reply With Quote
Old 01-23-2005, 06:25 PM   #8
Jeff Martin
Affiliate Jeff Martin is offline
 
Jeff Martin's Avatar
 
Profile:
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Ramona  Ca.
Posts: 1,318
Ron,
Would you want any input from a jr. high school cross country fanatic. Connor is a cross country fanatic and has been running races since elementary school. He has been running at around a 7:00 minute pace for the couple of years. This past week they ran the mile. His time was 6:17 a significant drop for him. They also ran an hour and forty-five minute jogathon. Connor put in 11.5 miles. I think that is pretty good for someone who has not run over 3 miles except when presrcribed on the WOD. (BTW he did this the day after posting 30 rounds on Cindy)I have had good succes with CF training for kids. Especially within a team. At first it is hard for them to get the concept, but once they do the team pushes and motivates themselves, I just show up with the equipment. As Eugene says, the team sees the workouts as their "leg up".
  Reply With Quote
Old 01-24-2005, 06:55 AM   #9
Thomas Whitehead
Member Thomas Whitehead is offline
 
Profile:
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Sackets Harbor  NY
Posts: 48
Ron - I run quite a bit. I'm always training for the Army APFT (a 2 mile timed run) and I try to participate in a few road races a year. My suggestion would be to go to the runnersworld.com website. You can read all sorts of articles on run workouts and run training schedules. You may have to scale the training schedules back a little for the junior high kids. But, I believe they might have just added something to their site specifically discussing cross country. I find that the keys to a good running program are one long run a week, and some speed workouts interspersed with easy run days. If I were making a program for M-F to coach a team after school it would be something like this:
Monday - 15 minute warmup jog, intervals, 15 minute cool down jog.
Tuesday - 3-4 miles of easy running.
Wednesday - 15 minute warmup jog, 1-2 miles at race pace, 15 minute cool down jog.
Thursday - 3-4 miles of easy running.
Friday - 6 mile run.

But, I would not leave out WOD type workouts. Conditioning the whole body has a tremendous impact on running. Hope this helps some.
  Reply With Quote
Old 01-24-2005, 02:17 PM   #10
Ron Nelson
Banned Ron Nelson is offline
 
Profile:
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Anaheim  CA
Posts: 1,199
This is getting good! I'm ordering a couple of adjustable kb's today. I think a couple of times through Helen will "season their meat!"
Eug,
Thanks for all the tips. Here I thought Jack Daniels was only good for whiskey! Never knew the guy was a runner. If you had to recommend one book right away, which would it be? I'm kind of limited on time as the training starts in 10 days and our first dual meet is in a month. In other words, the learning curve is quite steep!
Jeff,
Don't know why I didn't realize Connor was a x-country runner. He certainly fits the mold, except for the fact that he's probably twice as strong! What kind of training is he doing at school? Also, how did he do on his sit up re-test?
As for using CF with the kids, I had great success with our girls' volleyball team. They did chippers, Tabata This!, and a couple of 3-rounders of my devising. They loved it! Even the kids who a little "heavy." The team really pulls together and roots each other on through the pain.
Thomas,
Thanks for the schedule. It's definitely something that can be scaled down for kids this age. I think a 5K is in order for "long distance" days. That's about one and a half times their race distance.
  Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Gold Country Classic Roger Harrell Competitions 1 02-02-2007 10:22 PM
Barefoot Runners Eric Cohen Community 0 12-29-2006 10:21 AM
Cross Country Skiing Paul Theodorescu Fitness 8 02-28-2006 07:55 AM
OV Cross Country Results-Final Ron Nelson Community 14 03-29-2005 06:21 PM
Orangeview Cross Country Team Ron Nelson Testimonials 4 03-21-2005 11:00 AM


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 01:50 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.8
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
CrossFit is a registered trademark of CrossFit Inc.