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Old 03-09-2005, 11:14 PM   #11
Joshua F Hillis
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Thanks everyone! Lots of very thoughtful replies.

To Stephen - I appreciate your post, it does make me consider that there is definately an asthetic aspect to why I want to get bigger, is that really a bad thing? The other side is that most of the reason I want to get bigger is just rolling in Brazilian Jiu Jitsu class. I don't compete in BJJ so I'm not worried about weight classes at all. I just don't want to be the smallest guy in class. Although it's funny, people outweighing me by a couple pounds seems to matter less and less these days. I've been about that weight before, and it was pretty functional, or at least functional enough to snatch 27L/40R with a 24kg at the Kettlebell Meet. As far as it being a real character issue, if I was really that hung up on it I could just bodybuild and put on 2lbs a week, I've done it before and it's a lot easier than CrossFitting every day.

Scott - I actually have no idea what my bodyfat was a few months ago. I know a year ago when I was 170 (actually when the picture to the right <- was taken) I was 14%. Sunday I'm visiting Seattle and going to hang out with some of my trainer friends from back in the day, and their gym has calipers so I can test it again.

Beth, Robb Nicole - Listening to all of you! Ok so what I'm getting is 1.) Add fat and 2.) Focus on performance. I'll totally do that, and keep you guys posted.

One last question: Do you guys have any creative ways of adding fat? I just went to the store and baught an extra large jar of peanut butter and an extra large can of cashews. Besides that, I've got salad dressing, but still I'm eating nuts like 3-4x a day. Any good ideas for changing it up?

Thanks again guys, this really really helps.
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Old 03-10-2005, 12:55 AM   #12
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Hey Josh, nothing wrong at all with being bigger.
Just that I've been there/done that, and it didn't make a difference for me at all. Now my goal is to get leaner, and have better conditioning/cardio.

As for BJJ, I'm actually a pretty avid follower. Have you seen Rickson Gracie in action? i'd say he's got the best physique by far, lean, muscular but not hindering. He's about 175lb I believe.

I'd go so far as to say that Ken Shamrock, although awesomely muscular, is probably too big for his own good, due to conditioning. His foster brother Frank is more proportionate.
All the big guys seem to have a quick spurt but have trouble carrying the extra weight later on in the fight. like Tito Ortize, Tank Abbott..Vitor Belfort.

I find for martial artists, nothing still beats Bruce Lee, for phyisique and overall conditioning. Some of his feats still astound me!

Anyways, enough talk, hope you hit your goals in both the weights at the martial arts.
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Old 03-10-2005, 03:05 AM   #13
Beth Moscov
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avocados are another option for fat blocks. Olives are good. Or use some olive oil as part of a dressing for your vegies.
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Old 03-10-2005, 03:24 AM   #14
Alexander Karatis
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I haven't reached the point where I would consider changing my intake and proportions to start gaining weight (approx 8%BF now) but I have always wondered why it is that fat is the prefferable source for this phase. Especially if it is not used to produce a caloric surplus but rather receives more macronutrient balance attention at the expence of proteing, and already borderline carbs (usually).

Wouldn't conventional wisdom suggest protein as the preffered source of the caloric addition or macronutrient shift due to its muscle sparring and thermic properties? I mean, after all, it is muscle we are looking to put on right?

If the focus is more toward maintaining musculature AND peak performance, and we do that NOT by adding calories, then why the macronutrient shift? I can understand maintaining performance levels, but how are we keeping our musculature with less protein?

BTW-Robb, TOP NOTCH work on Performance Menu! I was real happy to see those hints you gave us months ago turn to fruition! I'm moving in to a new appartment and I can't wait to start cooking and experimenting again! I just stumbled on it on the norcal site-Has there been no promo on the main crossfit site or the boards or did I just miss it?

This is too good a product for you to keep a low profile buddy!:happy:
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Old 03-10-2005, 10:19 AM   #15
Larry Lindenman
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Josh, you got the best advise already, macademia (sp?) nuts, 1 block per nut...very easy to calculate. Almonds 3 = 1 block of fat. Almond butter with celery. Flax oil dressings for salad. Sears recommends 1 extra block of protein per day for hypertrophy! So a bed time snack which includes 1 extra block of protein (from cottage cheese, slow buring casin) might help.
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Old 03-10-2005, 12:04 PM   #16
David Werner
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Alexander

Here is the thinking;

Protein needs are met first to allow for all body function,repair and growth. Next, carbs are added to produce the desired blood sugar levels and Insulin/Glucagon balance. Fats, being generally hormonaly nuetral are added last to get to the needed calorie (energy) level.

The whole point of the "Zone" diet is to control your blood sugar level and with it your Insulin/Glucagon balance. Normalizing blood sugar fluctuations and Insulin sensitivity produces a huge range of positive consequences.

With the proper hormonal environment established FAT has a protein sparing effect because it is being used as an energy source. With the wrong hormonal environment fat is just stored and carbs are the energy substrate.

A steady supply of polyunsaturated fats are also need as building blocks for eicosanoids. Establishing the proper hormonal environment and providing adequate levels of "good" fats causes the production of desireable eicosanoids. The payoff for this is reduced levels of inflamation, improved immune system function and other good stuff.

Regards
Dave Werner
Crossfit North
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Old 03-10-2005, 12:06 PM   #17
Scott Shafer
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2 words: EAT FOOD!!!

Dang it, its not that complicated! If you are feeling all "zonish" just eat larger amounts of the same proportions.
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Old 03-10-2005, 12:32 PM   #18
Alexander Karatis
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David,

Thank you for that rundown. I have a fairly good grasp of hormonal concepts and the zone philosophy but have never really delved into its intricacies since I never chose to follow the diet per instructions. (Although how I eat is pretty close to it).

Specifically, I was wondering if reducing protein below "maintenance levels" in order to give way to more fat is really the way to go when dealing with highly athletic individuals.

I mean, there is a reason we settle on a protein level, and that level should logically be increasing in tiny increments as we build more muscle-right?

So if we are to accept that an individual who has gradually gotten stronger and leaner is reaching a point where he needs a shift to start growing again, my logical choice would be to add up the calories with fat.

Anyway, my question may be a bit pedantic but I can just see the shift for me being necessary 2-3 months down the road and I wanted to get it right. :happy:
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Old 03-10-2005, 12:58 PM   #19
David Werner
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Alexander

You've got it exactly right.The basis for protein determination is 1)lean body mass and 2)activity level. So as you get lean enough, fat is added to continue to meet energy requirements, but over time your mass and/or activity level will increase (because you can work out harder & more often) and then your requirement for protein and carbs increases as well. So the direct answer to yur question is - no, protein should not ever be below maintenance level.

One nice thing about actually doing the weighing and measureing called for by the Zone, is that you then have enough knowledge about what you REALLY eat to make rational changes, allowing you to experiment until you feel right.

Regards
Dave Werner
Crossfit North
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Old 03-10-2005, 01:19 PM   #20
Alexander Karatis
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Thanks again Dave!

Actually that was the part that was most interesting for me about the zone. Feeling confident that I eat right hormonally and knowing that I have a very good selection of food sources, I was most interested in getting to a point experience-wise where I could visually assess what the food in front of me means nutritionally, calorically, and hormonally.

I have noticed a good degree of awareness in the past two years where I really cleaned out my diet and lifestyle, but I suppose that nothing compares to actually weighing the stuff.

Now that I'm moving out and will be cooking a lot once again, I might just give the "strict zone" a try:happy:\

Cheers!
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