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Old 11-29-2012, 10:38 AM   #751
Mark E. Wallace
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Re: Stop Anthos from Taking over CrossFit

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dale F. Saran View Post
Of course, the usual folks have jumped in with their "you're unprofessional" meme - I get that on my personal facebook page when I'm minding my own business from the usual crowd of CrossFit Haters who are just galled that CF, Inc. and Greg didn't lose this fight. I suspect this is because there is a dedicated crowd of CF bashers and Haters who have been saying for years that CrossFit was a fad, that it would fail, that the Games was a joke ('duh, working out isn't a sport!"), and on and on.
Since I'm one of those who thinks that part (certainly not all) of Russell's message was unprofessional, I'll also comment that I am absolutely *not* a Crossfit hater or basher and am absolutely not galled that Greg didn't lose the fight. I have been doing CF for three years and plan to continue doing so. I am also very happy that Greg won the battle.

All of that has nothing at all to do with professionalism though. I continue to be stunned by Russell's messaging. First, that he elected to publicly mock/bash Bryan Kelly rather than just take the high road and celebrate the win. Second, that (by virtue of a puking clown mascot and wearing shorts to work) he doesn't think that Crossfit should exemplify professionalism.

Particularly on that latter point, I am very disappointed. Russell seems like a good guy, and I have seen him post good stuff; nonetheless, if someone working for me said to my constituents that the organization (or even just he himself) feels no responsibility to be professional, we would have a serious closed-door conversation that would have the potential for him getting fired.

- Mark
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Old 11-29-2012, 11:28 AM   #752
Nathan Holmes
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Re: Stop Anthos from Taking over CrossFit

Dale,

I'm sorry that people call you unprofessional on your Facebook. I can't do anything about that. That said, I'm not sure what your Facebook has to do with Russ' post or our comments regarding it.

Perhaps instead of lumping us into a group with those who would love to see CrossFit burned to the ground, a bit of objective reflection would be in order. I think I can speak for the majority when I say that we all want to see the CrossFit Community continue to grow and succeed physically and mentally. I personally feel that writing vindictive posts like Russ' in a public forum, as an official representative of CrossFit, are counter-productive to part of that goal.

You and I both serve(d); it's similar to the rules about getting involved in politics while in the military; we can do it as a private citizen but when you put your uniform on or use your rank next to your name, you become an official representative and more stringent rules apply. Having "CrossFit Staff" by one's name and posting on the official CrossFit message board means one is speaking directly for HQ and, to a large part, the CrossFit Community; that responsibility shouldn't be dismissed so flippantly. That said, please understand that this is not an indictment of HQ or the staff in general. This is directed at the specific series of posts contained in this thread. For the majority of the time, the HQ staff is nothing but professional and helpful on these message boards.

-Nate
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Old 11-29-2012, 01:58 PM   #753
Mark E. Wallace
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Re: Stop Anthos from Taking over CrossFit

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nathan Holmes View Post
For the majority of the time, the HQ staff is nothing but professional and helpful on these message boards.
Yes, absolutely.

- Mark
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Old 11-29-2012, 02:50 PM   #754
Daniela Jantzen
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Re: Stop Anthos from Taking over CrossFit

“Regard your good name as the richest jewel you can possibly be possessed of -- for credit is like fire; when once you have kindled it you may easily preserve it, but if you once extinguish it, you will find it an arduous task to rekindle it again. The way to a good reputation is to endeavor to be what you desire to appear.”
― Socrates

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Old 12-01-2012, 12:53 AM   #755
Dale F. Saran
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Re: Stop Anthos from Taking over CrossFit

Mark - this thread has now become about Russell's recitation of what happened. nathan and you have declared, ipse dixit, that the post was "unprofessional." Nathan called it "petty, vindictive" among other terms; you talked about it as belonging "in the locker room." Neither of you has yet pointed to exactly what in the post is petty. The vast majority of it deals with how the CF community came together to help in preventing this Company from being sold to a hostile PE firm.

Matt Thomas jumped in and he has been... let's say less than enthusiastic both here and elsewhere regarding CrossFit. I was not referring to either you or Nathan, but let's return to the point here.

What exactly in Russ' post is so unprofessional? His claim of BK's actions being "unethical?" Is that claim unprofessional or "vindictive"? How is that "spiking the ball?" Many of us have been overrun by messages of support, questions, as well as attacks in light of this rather 'happy ending' for CF, its affiliates, and this community. The easiest way to deal with it, rather than in 150 individual replies, is to post something somewhere centrally located, trying to give an "attaboy" to the Community. So, again, what EXACT language do you find objectionable because I'm having a hard time finding it? I think your response is vastly over-reactive to what was posted and that makes me curious.
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Old 12-01-2012, 10:29 AM   #756
Nathan Holmes
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Re: Stop Anthos from Taking over CrossFit

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dale F. Saran View Post
Neither of you has yet pointed to exactly what in the post is petty. The vast majority of it deals with how the CF community came together to help in preventing this Company from being sold to a hostile PE firm.

What exactly in Russ' post is so unprofessional? His claim of BK's actions being "unethical?" Is that claim unprofessional or "vindictive"? How is that "spiking the ball?" The easiest way to deal with it, rather than in 150 individual replies, is to post something somewhere centrally located, trying to give an "attaboy" to the Community. So, again, what EXACT language do you find objectionable because I'm having a hard time finding it? I think your response is vastly over-reactive to what was posted and that makes me curious.
Dale,

It is very disappointing that someone of your stature and in your position is unable or unwilling to see what was unprofessional about Russ' post. I would hope that "[you] know it when [you] see it". However, since you asked;

Quote:
Originally Posted by Russell Greene View Post
Early on, Bryan Kelly set out on a course of unethical and potentially illegal tactics in order to own something he could never honestly buy.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Russell Greene View Post
Bryan Kelly likely never imagined he would find himself legally and financially outmaneuvered by such a small company, but he’s likely left feeling like a victim of the Illuminati.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Russell Greene View Post
Perhaps we can all learn a valuable lesson from Bryan Kelly. He is the embodiment of what we reject. Even with all of his ethically and legally questionable actions, the trait that best defines Bryan Kelly is his commitment to rent-seeking- the pursuit of profit absent the creation of new value.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Russell Greene View Post
In many ways, Bryan Kelly can serve as a model of what we are not. CrossFit is committed to the pursuit of excellence. As Greg Glassman has said before, excellence generates wealth. Bryan Kelly’s pipe dreams of using CrossFit HQ’s leverage to extract revenue from Affiliates is the antithesis of the excellence model.

Anthos tried, and failed.
He DID NOT spend the "vast majority" of his post addressing the community. He spent nearly half of it attacking Kelly and Anthos. NONE of the commentary served a purpose other than to "rub it in his nose". One could cut all of the above quotes out and the post would actually have been great, praising all those who helped and rallying the troops around a terrific victory.

Then he effectively gave away the game when he wrote
Quote:
Originally Posted by Russell Greene View Post
I don't know what made you guys think CrossFit would exemplify what you consider "professional," aka business as usual[...]Really, it depends what you mean by "professional."
He could have condensed all his commentary into the few words he wrote into a later post;
Quote:
Originally Posted by Russell Greene View Post
Bryan Kelly lost, and this is over.
Look at it this way. What if this was a dispute between two affiliates and one of them got on the message board to gloat after winning the dispute? Would you admire them or be disappointed? Or what if, after winning the 2012 games, Rich or Annie got on here and began belittling their competitors? Many would call them jerks and stop rooting for them.

The best thing you have written on the topic so far:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dale F. Saran View Post
The easiest way to deal with it, rather than in 150 individual replies, is to post something somewhere centrally located, trying to give an "attaboy" to the Community.
I wish he had merely done this. I hope this is what he chooses to do in the future.
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Old 12-01-2012, 11:06 AM   #757
Russell Greene
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Re: Stop Anthos from Taking over CrossFit

Nathan,

Wow. I never thought I'd catch so much heat for calling someone a rent-seeker.

Which of my statements above are inaccurate, and why? Or, do you simply disagree with the tone?

Your analogy with Rich and Annie is misplaced. As much as I love the CrossFit Games, they are trivial in comparison to the survival of the entire CrossFit affiliate model.

The dispute with Anthos was not a sporting match where the winner gets a prize and the loser gets another shot next year. It was a conflict between two visions for CrossFit's future - one leveraging CrossFit HQ's control over the affiliates to extract revenue, and the other committed to the Least Rents Model. It was important that CrossFit affiliates understand that situation and the crucial role they played in helping us get through it. There was no way to explain what Anthos and Bryan represented and how we defeated them without a post like the one to which you object.

If Anthos had won, they may not have called Greg Glassman a rent-seeker in a message board. They would, however, have forever corrupted the relationship between CrossFit HQ and the affiliates. Given the magnitude of that risk, I have a hard time understanding why you're making such a big deal out of me calling someone "unethical" and accusing him of rent-seeking. People call me far worse every day.
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Old 12-01-2012, 12:17 PM   #758
Struan Potter
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Re: Stop Anthos from Taking over CrossFit

It speaks volumes where most of the information of this affair from HQ's standpoint comes via it's own message board.

If I didn't do CrossFit and heard they won a legal battle, I would want to see their announcement on www.crossfit.com
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Old 12-01-2012, 12:43 PM   #759
Larry Bruce
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Re: Stop Anthos from Taking over CrossFit

Nathan, it wasn't a friendly beach ball game going on, it was one side trying to rip the nuts off the other. Give the man a break here!
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Old 12-01-2012, 01:36 PM   #760
Mark E. Wallace
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Re: Stop Anthos from Taking over CrossFit

It should have just stopped with Coach's announcement (wfs), which I thought was perfect. It announces the result, doesn't personalize it, and moves on. If any single person had any sort of reasonable motive to criticize Bryan after all of this, it was Coach, but even he didn't do it. At least, not publicly. Why Russell felt it had to be done is beyond me. I can't imagine that the CF community as a whole (or even just the forum members) perceived the situation as incomplete and in need of someone from HQ to come out here and blow off steam.

Even after the dirtiest, most mudslinging of political campaigns, the winners are disciplined and wise enough to take the win and move on. Maybe there's a mention that the opponent used unappreciated tactics. Maybe (and more often than) not. But the winner doesn't leave the field while still making it personal.

I guarantee you that, had you run this through a professional PR manager, they never would have wanted Russell to make that post. Even if he is absolutely 100% correct about everything that Bryan did/said/represented/intended (which he probably is), you take the high road and move on.

And then to come out and publicly state essentially that HQ feels no commitment to being professional and doesn't understand how we would expect that they would be professional. Amazing. Imagine if all of your affiliates were to follow that lead this coming week with their current and prospective clients.

(Prospective Client) "Yes, happy to meet you. We're looking for a professional trainer to help us totally transform our physical fitness."

(Affiliate) "Our mascot is a vomiting clown. We go to work in shorts and t-shirts. I don't know what made you guys think CrossFit would exemplify what you consider "professional,"

I know for one that -- if the owners of my box were to tell me that in return for my monthly dues -- they would never see me or my dues again. Had they said it to me when we first met, it would have been their parting words. If I'm paying you, I don't give a damn what your mascot is or what your work clothes are, you had better be a pro with me.

My last words on the topic unless I'm specifically asked to comment again.

Best,

Mark
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