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Old 07-19-2012, 11:14 PM   #21
Dale F. Saran
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Re: EU affiliates against CROSSGYM

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Originally Posted by Aaron C Bennett View Post
If CrossGym wins, it means anyone can open a CrossGym gym. Crossfit will still be protected, just not CrossXXX. Crossfit didn't invent any of the exercises, so they can't argue from that stance. Crosstraining existed for many years prior to the founding of Crossfit, so it will be a difficult case to make on that regard. The best case Crossfit has is for brand confusion and dilution.
Anyone can teach a snatch or a C&J as it is, regardless of what Crossfit says or does. Even in Crossfit, there is a huge problem with poor instruction and bad programming (check the injuries section for proof). There are many types of gyms out there that had been doing stuff like Crossfit long before Crossfit popularized it (I know we did similar workouts in skiing dry land practice in the mid-90's). You yourself admit that the training you got about Olympic lifts came from a weightlifter, not from Crossfit. There's little in the exercises or programming that can really set Crossfit apart from the similar programs (not enough to be legally actionable in any way).
Crossfit will need to separate themselves from the wannabes. As it stands, Crossfit isn't doing it with the quality of instruction. While we all know that their are good Crossfit trainers and boxes, but more and more seem to be going it alone, having realized that their own reputation they have built is more valuable than the Crossfit brand, without the negative stigma.
People who do not understand the basics of trademark law should not opine authoritatively on what a lawsuit means or doesn't. Your comment is so wrong and devoid of both legal and operative facts, I genuinely do not know where to begin. I'm sorry, I was going to simply ignore this and then start over from scratch, but let me just go line by line. I also think English may not be your first language, so I don't want to seem cruel, but this is just... well, let me start.

Suffice it to say, your first two statements are completely, legally wrong. Completely.
Third is a non sequitur in the context of this lawsuit. Zero relevance. No one will be arguing who invented the snatch or clean and jerk.
Four is the same as three.
Five - here you seem to finally mention some relevant things in a trademark dispute, which makes me think you actually do understand this... but that makes your surrounding statements all the more inexplicable.
Six.... and we're right back to the drivel of three and four. Again, irrelevant.
Seven, the "injuries section for proof" of a lack of quality training. That's an interesting logical claim. I would suggest you retake logic.
Eight, and the rest of that paragraph (9-11, I think) and we're once again back in the land of "CrossFit did not invent the snatch." I have no idea why this is so important to you, but it occupies (up to this point) half of the statements made. Which about as relevant as the current price of tea in China to this lawsuit.
"CrossFit will need to separate themselves..." constitutes reasonably sound business advice. And could arguably be tied to this lawsuit (if you really think about it - aren't we in essence trying to do that by counterclaiming to cancel the CrossGym mark??)
Now a completely unsupported claim about the "quality of instruction" followed by another claim about how everyone is "going it alone".

How many other successful, multinational fitness companies with over 4000 affiliates, an ANSI accredited seminar program, and literally hundreds of folks, sponsors, other companies trying to trade off the name are there?
I'll wait....

I'm sorry, brother, but zero points awarded on this effort. I'm not sure what your background is, but it might be time for some refresh on the Lanham Act, as well as Italian/EU law on trademarks (look up the EU-CTM/WIPO stuff). It is worth noting that CrossGym was CrossFit Italia for a few years before they suddenly decided the CrossFit mark was, you know, generic. Like two weeks before they filed suit against us.

Weird.
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Old 07-19-2012, 11:30 PM   #22
Russell Greene
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Re: EU affiliates against CROSSGYM

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Originally Posted by Shawn Bellon View Post
Good point. In this case cant it be said that CrossFit is just trying to make money? It really is not responsbile certifying for quality imo.

I personally do not like that CrossFit does act like they invented or reinvented many exercise methodologies. They have their own organization and structure with great marketing etc. I am a big fan. But orginal? That is debatable.

So can someone not have a Crosstraining gym? Seems silly. I have seen Christian shirts that say "Are you Cross fit?"
It's interesting that Shawn, the guy questioning whether CrossFit is original, is sponsored by the X-Fit line of supplements. Besides their derivative name, X-Fit is notorious for slyly using CrossFit workouts, athletes, and gyms to market their supplements.

Here's an X-Fit video showing "custom workouts" designed "exclusively for MHP X-Fit": http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tjtj5...feature=relmfu. Look familiar? It's the CrossFit benchmark "Diane", though you'd never learn that by watching the video.

And here is another video promoting X-Fit: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DWqENnBYkro&feature=plcp. Yes, that's "Jackie."

So, Shawn, if CrossFit is just a money-grubbing marketing company with unoriginal material, why does X-Fit feel the need to blatantly copy CrossFit's workouts and mimic the brand, without attribution?

(links are work/family safe)
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Old 07-20-2012, 04:11 AM   #23
Joey Scafidi
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Re: EU affiliates against CROSSGYM

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Originally Posted by Russell Greene View Post
It's interesting that Shawn, the guy questioning whether CrossFit is original, is sponsored by the X-Fit line of supplements. Besides their derivative name, X-Fit is notorious for slyly using CrossFit workouts, athletes, and gyms to market their supplements.

Here's an X-Fit video showing "custom workouts" designed "exclusively for MHP X-Fit": http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tjtj5...feature=relmfu. Look familiar? It's the CrossFit benchmark "Diane", though you'd never learn that by watching the video.

And here is another video promoting X-Fit: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DWqENnBYkro&feature=plcp. Yes, that's "Jackie."

So, Shawn, if CrossFit is just a money-grubbing marketing company with unoriginal material, why does X-Fit feel the need to blatantly copy CrossFit's workouts and mimic the brand, without attribution?

(links are work/family safe)
Why's Daniel Tyminski doing this? Doesn't he own/train at CrossFit Lindy?

Last edited by Joey Scafidi : 07-20-2012 at 04:21 AM. Reason: i need to research more before speaking
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Old 07-20-2012, 05:38 AM   #24
Shawn Bellon
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Re: EU affiliates against CROSSGYM

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Originally Posted by Russell Greene View Post
It's interesting that Shawn, the guy questioning whether CrossFit is original, is sponsored by the X-Fit line of supplements. Besides their derivative name, X-Fit is notorious for slyly using CrossFit workouts, athletes, and gyms to market their supplements.

Here's an X-Fit video showing "custom workouts" designed "exclusively for MHP X-Fit": http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tjtj5...feature=relmfu. Look familiar? It's the CrossFit benchmark "Diane", though you'd never learn that by watching the video.

And here is another video promoting X-Fit: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DWqENnBYkro&feature=plcp. Yes, that's "Jackie."

So, Shawn, if CrossFit is just a money-grubbing marketing company with unoriginal material, why does X-Fit feel the need to blatantly copy CrossFit's workouts and mimic the brand, without attribution?

(links are work/family safe)
X-FIT for our supplement line was clearly established at standing for Xtreme Fitness Intensity Training. They market all high intensity cross training athletes. They also market to MMA and have a few kettlebell studs as well.

Yes they do have CrossFit athletes that they sponsor. Is this a bad thing? No.

We are notorious? For sponsoring events? For selling our supplement line? Uh yeah MHP has been around for a long time. That is what they do. Does their Xfit Power state that MHP created d-aspartic acid or hicca? Nope. Do we claim the creation of raspberry ketones? Creatine? No. We are a supplement company. We just joined to sponsor the 31 Heroes project as well. So that is a bad thing? We sponsor NASCAR. Bad thing?

As far as Daniel goes and his videos I am not sure why that is a problem. He is sponsored by us. He put the videos together. They were good and informative. If these are the workouts you say would it have been fine to call them as such? I am curious to know...not being argumentative.

As far as saying CrossFit is "money-grubbing" I never stated that. I agreed with another member posting about the Level 1 certification. And I still think there should be a testing process to make it harder personally. Again I state my own opinion on that.

And my reference to unoriginal really means CrossFit is a conglomerate of exercises and methodologies. I obviously do not hate it because I totally support the movement, believe in it and am a member in an affiliate.

X-FIT as far as I know is totally ethical and legal to use. So is cross training which was a term used long before CrossFit came to be. I think the mere fact that we sponsor powerlifting events, mma, CrossFit boxes, competitors and events is alot to say that they are giving back quite a bit to the CrossFit community along with other genres. The Winter Open last year run by CrossFit Works in Tucson gave out 10 prize packs of supplements value at $300 each. Not bad. Just to sponsor the event. And the box asked me to help sponsor.

So Russell, I am not against you and certainly know that MHP is not against you. We sell supplements. You sell a movement. A methodology.
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Old 07-20-2012, 08:24 AM   #25
Daniel Tyminski
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Re: EU affiliates against CROSSGYM

Unfortunately this is a battle that CrossFit Inc will probably lose. More and more topics/situations will arise from this in the future. CrossFit is growing so rapidly that everyone wants to dabble in on the fruit punch, so they will try and do the best they can to try and market off it. It is really inevitable. As an affiliate owner, this could potentially be dangerous, which is why you have to establish yourself as a good coach/trainer/affiliate. If you do, then you shouldnt have a problem. But I do feel for the guys in Europe about this problem. It is scary to think that. Hopefully those boys overcome and are victorious.
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Old 07-20-2012, 09:25 AM   #26
Daniel Tyminski
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Re: EU affiliates against CROSSGYM

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Originally Posted by Joey Scafidi View Post
Why's Daniel Tyminski doing this? Doesn't he own/train at CrossFit Lindy?
I am CrossFit Affiliate owner and an MHP Sponsored athlete. And I do not see any problems with the usage of "X-Fit". MHP made a supplement line called X-Fit geared to athletes involved with CrossFit only to make better athletes. The difference between Crossfit and X-Fit is that CrossFit is a fitness program and X-Fit is a supplement line. I see nothing wrong with that. If anything, X-Fit has helped the sport of fitness grow, turning meatheads into athletes. Ive actually had a couple people watch the videos Ive made, come into my gym and say "Holy ****!!! I saw you on YouTube making those MHP videos" and got hooked on Crossfit.
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Old 07-20-2012, 03:44 PM   #27
Russell Greene
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Re: EU affiliates against CROSSGYM

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Originally Posted by Daniel Tyminski View Post
Unfortunately this is a battle that CrossFit Inc will probably lose. More and more topics/situations will arise from this in the future. CrossFit is growing so rapidly that everyone wants to dabble in on the fruit punch, so they will try and do the best they can to try and market off it. It is really inevitable. As an affiliate owner, this could potentially be dangerous, which is why you have to establish yourself as a good coach/trainer/affiliate. If you do, then you shouldnt have a problem. But I do feel for the guys in Europe about this problem. It is scary to think that. Hopefully those boys overcome and are victorious.
Dan,

I did not want to drag you into this, since I don't know to what extent you are responsible for X-Fit's decisions. If you are going to defend their intentionally misleading propaganda, though, I'm going to have to call you out on it.

Do you see how your actions with X-Fit help fulfill your own prediction about CrossFit losing control of its brand and consumers becoming confused about CrossFit? The excuse that X-Fit may be legal does not imply that it's ethical.

Let me give you an example. Take your X-Fit video demonstrating CrossFit's benchmark workout "Diane": http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tjtj5...feature=relmfu. (Link is work and family safe). At 0:23 in your video, it says "Dan has designed these custom workouts exclusively for MHP X-Fit." You then go on to take two athletes through "Diane": the classic CrossFit couplet of deadlifts and handstand push-ups.

So Dan, I want you to clear something up for me. Here is a clear, yes or no question: Are you claiming that you designed "Diane" exclusively for X-Fit?

If not, why does your X-Fit video say that?

As for you Shawn, after witnessing a record crowd attend the CrossFit Games at the Home Depot Center, I can safely say that CrossFit has no need for your "support."
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Old 07-20-2012, 08:02 PM   #28
Shawn Bellon
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Re: EU affiliates against CROSSGYM

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As for you Shawn, after witnessing a record crowd attend the CrossFit Games at the Home Depot Center, I can safely say that CrossFit has no need for your "support."
That is unfortunate that with all the I gladly responded with for healthy dialogue that you quip back with something so snarky. That is your right.
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Old 08-27-2012, 12:02 AM   #29
Sasha Grosic
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Re: EU affiliates against CROSSGYM

Hello dear friends! I would like to address this post which contains some false info. This gym that Jami mentioned in his post (quoted below) "CrossFitness (Croatia): http://www.crossfitness.ba/index.php (WFS)" has nothing to do with Croatia. It is completely different country, Bosnia and Herzegovina.

However, Croatia has one and only legit affiliate "CrossFit Zagreb" registered with my name.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jami Tikkanen View Post
http://issuu.com/alamery12/docs/lawsuit_cancel_ctm_cf-1

The outcome of this court case may dictate the future of the CrossFit affiliate program and CrossFit affiliates in Europe (and could set a precedent for the rest of the world). If CrossGym are successful and the CrossFit EC verbal trademarks are deemed invalid, any non-CrossFit gym owner / trainer could potentially promote / offer "CrossFit" training in Europe regardless of their qualifications in, or passion for, the methodology and community we all love.

As a coach to competitive CrossFitters, I'm worried about the consequences that a worst case scenario could have on the development of CrossFit as a sport in Europe (integrity in posting results during the Open for example).

Please, let's not allow our community to lose this important cause. You can help by just sharing the information so CrossFitters world wide know what's going on.

Thanks,
Jami

Here are some links to give you context:

Cross Gym: http://crossgymstore.com/ (WFS)
Black Box Cross Gym (France): http://www.blackbox13aix.com/ (WFS)
CrossFitness (Croatia): http://www.crossfitness.ba/index.php (WFS)
Cross Store (Austrian store):www.crossstore.eu/ (WFS)
Cross Zone (Austrian CrossFit knockoff gyms): http://www.crosszone.at/ (WFS)
Beastmode competition (Cross Gym's CrossFit Games knockoff): http://beastmode.eu/weightlifting-open/ (WFS)
Cross Gym Milan: http://www.mauriziomaddaloni.com/ind...article&id=204 (WFS)
Cross Gym Cantu: http://www.crossgymcantu.com/ (WFS)
CrossGym Ventura: http://crossgymventura.it/pages/index.html#/step-2 (WFS)
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Old 12-22-2012, 06:28 AM   #30
Diarmuid Morley
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Re: EU affiliates against CROSSGYM

Whats the latest with this action? When is the legal case scheduled to be decided? Anybody know...? Thanks
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