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Old 02-11-2012, 08:30 PM   #31
Dale F. Saran
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Re: Who has ownership of FGB?

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Originally Posted by Daniel Blackmon View Post
With all of this being said...I'd be willing to bet that there are two sides to this story. I've participated in Fight Gone Bad for many years. I've raised over $20,000 for Wounded Soldiers and the families of Soldiers that were killed. I would like someone at CrossFit to explain to me why we are taking a fundraiser that, by name, is and has been for years associated with helping veterans and their families and using it for a different charity.

CrossFit Inc. has many workouts, lots of publicity, lots of resources and could develop, establish, publicize any of said workouts to raise money for St. Judes. But instead, they are choosing to take a fundraiser name that is already established and change its beneficiary. It would be like Race for the Cure all of a sudden changing their beneficiary to HIV efforts in Africa. Both are noble causes but could be confusing for the donors and those who are meant to run the events.

I am afraid that this pi$$ing match is going to lead to less dollars into the hands of the very people we are trying to help.

In true "full exposure" fashion, I will admit that I know Scott and Greta Zagarino and they are good people who I truly believe have giving hearts. They are not shy about telling you that they make a living running Sportsgrants but I'm pretty sure they aren't planning on buying any vaction property in Boca just yet. I think they are just trying to protect something that they have nurtured for many years and finally grown into a very successful event.

You can say that CF is doing this to protect the affiliates but call me a skeptic when there are millions of dollars involved.
Yes, Don, you're right: let's look at it again. When there are millions of dollars involved, people do start to act funny. The problem is, there are millions of dollars involved for only one set of people in this equation - and it isn't CF HQ. We derive zero - ZERO - dollars of income from FGB. Scott and Greta make their living off of it. You tell me who's got something to gain or lose.

And there is a lot more to this story - and when the litigation is over - I'll be happy to share the emails word for word. I'll just say this - I only found out that SZ had trademarked Fight Gone Bad when Todd Lynch of BGI called us and said "hey, I'm getting a cease and desist from some attorney after I posted a local fundraiser using FGB for one of my members." That's how SG's trademarking FGB came to HQ's attention. And then another affiliate - in Canada - was threatened with a lawsuit. And that was about enough of that.

I have the paper to back up every claim. And you certainly won't find me signing a sworn declaration claiming that states: "Andy and I were doing a newly introduced workout together called 'Fight Gone Bad,' which is a phrase I first heard used by mixed martial arts champion B.J. Penn to describe a particularly tough and challenging workout designed for him."

Really? BJ Penn has never even met Scott. And "newly introduced workout"? In 2006? It was in the Journal in 2002. It was done at virtually every Level I from 2004 through 2008.

I know your friends Don, but a spade is still a spade. And I'm not bowing to anyone's supposed moral superiority because they make their living raising money for charity. We make our living doing something I think is no less noble and Coach's generosity is limitless - a lot of people in this community have been the beneficiaries of it. I can't change the facts - they speak for themselves. But your insinuation that HQ might be acting less than honorably because there's "millions of dollars involved" needs to have the light of truth shined on it. We get NOTHING - NO INCOME - of those "millions." Scott and Greta derive their income from it. That is indisputable. If this whole thing ended tomorrow - no fundraisers at all - CF's financial position would not change one cent. In fact, given the drain on staff time & resources, we would undoubtedly be better off financially.
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Old 02-12-2012, 09:21 AM   #32
Pär Larsson
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Re: Who has ownership of FGB?

Seems like the workout and expression "Fight Gone Bad" has been a CrossFit thing for X number of years now, almost exclusively done in CF affiliates under the instruction of people certified by CFHQ.

Which begs the question - how the heck did anyone not with CFHQ manage to trademark the phrase "Fight Gone Bad"?

Here's to hoping whoever wants to use the term can buy it, or just change the name and/or the workout and keep doing good stuff for charity.

Yay drama.
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Old 02-12-2012, 10:10 AM   #33
Philip Mancini Jr.
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Re: Who has ownership of FGB?

No worries Dale, I don't feel picked on.

With that being said, I've been involved with the CrossFit community since 2003, been an affiliate owner since 2008, and have participated in the FGB events since they started. This is the first time I've heard anything about CF HQ being so involved in the event, which is the argument they have to make if they expect to hold on to the IP. I've never received any assistance (rowers, judges, phone calls) from HQ, ever!! I've had numerous interactions with Sportsgrants, so maybe I am misinformed as far as HQ involvement goes.

I'm sure there's much more going on behind the scenes that what is being shared here on the message board, as it should be. Our affiliate is still planning on participating in the September event, just as we've always done in the past.
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Old 02-12-2012, 08:03 PM   #34
Lisbeth Darsh
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Re: Who has ownership of FGB?

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Originally Posted by Philip Mancini Jr. View Post
No worries Dale, I don't feel picked on.

With that being said, I've been involved with the CrossFit community since 2003, been an affiliate owner since 2008, and have participated in the FGB events since they started. This is the first time I've heard anything about CF HQ being so involved in the event, which is the argument they have to make if they expect to hold on to the IP. I've never received any assistance (rowers, judges, phone calls) from HQ, ever!! I've had numerous interactions with Sportsgrants, so maybe I am misinformed as far as HQ involvement goes.

I'm sure there's much more going on behind the scenes that what is being shared here on the message board, as it should be. Our affiliate is still planning on participating in the September event, just as we've always done in the past.
Philip, I'm not supposed to talk here. In fact, Dale is probably going to yell at me for this, but I can tell you that I've been working for CFHQ since 2008 and I've been involved a LOT every year. You see my public work on the Affiliate Blog and the CrossFit Facebook pages. You don't see my nonpublic work though, or the work of my co-workers. The top part of this venture is visible, but underneath there's a whole bunch more. But I wouldn't expect you (or anybody else) to know that so I understand how some of this might seem odd.

I don't own an affiliate anymore (after four years, I closed mine in order to move westward for CFHQ) but if I did, I would not be involving mine with Sportsgrants. To others, it might seem like a minor matter. From my viewpoint, this matters a whole bunch. My shirts say "CrossFit" (and used to say "CrossFit Watertown"), so when someone else tries to take part of the CrossFit trademark, I get a little edgy. An assault on the CrossFit trademark is an assault on us all. This isn't just a case of a charitable event. This relates to all of our businesses, when you think about it.
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Old 02-13-2012, 01:11 AM   #35
Steve Loeding
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Re: Who has ownership of FGB?

CrossFit HQ needs to do a much better job of keeping us affiliates in the loop.

The message board is NOT the way to do it.

We pay fees every year to be associated with CrossFit (with no problem btw) - but it would be really nice to have HQ keep affiliates up to date on things.

FGB, Reebok CrossFit affliates, prices to affiliate, etc - there is NO communication from HQ.

This does need to be addressed - I'm tired of rumors, searching the message board, etc - we pay good money - we need to be kept in the loop.

one would think with the number of people at HQ and the clout that they carry that they would be able to keep us up to date.

Gets old getting my info from the discussion board and not from HQ directly.

This is a communication problem and needs to be addressed. I'm tired of finding things out after the fact. CrossFit is a professional organization and needs to keep us affiliates in the loop.


Steve
Top Gun CrossFit
Mpls, Mn
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Old 02-13-2012, 01:13 AM   #36
Steve Loeding
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Re: Who has ownership of FGB?

Isn't there a public info officer in CrossFit ???

Every police, fire, military branch has a PIO - where is the CrossFit PIO ???
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Old 02-13-2012, 09:25 AM   #37
Daniel Blackmon
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Re: Who has ownership of FGB?

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Originally Posted by Dale F. Saran View Post
Yes, Don, you're right: let's look at it again. When there are millions of dollars involved, people do start to act funny. The problem is, there are millions of dollars involved for only one set of people in this equation - and it isn't CF HQ. We derive zero - ZERO - dollars of income from FGB. Scott and Greta make their living off of it. You tell me who's got something to gain or lose.

And there is a lot more to this story - and when the litigation is over - I'll be happy to share the emails word for word. I'll just say this - I only found out that SZ had trademarked Fight Gone Bad when Todd Lynch of BGI called us and said "hey, I'm getting a cease and desist from some attorney after I posted a local fundraiser using FGB for one of my members." That's how SG's trademarking FGB came to HQ's attention. And then another affiliate - in Canada - was threatened with a lawsuit. And that was about enough of that.

I have the paper to back up every claim. And you certainly won't find me signing a sworn declaration claiming that states: "Andy and I were doing a newly introduced workout together called 'Fight Gone Bad,' which is a phrase I first heard used by mixed martial arts champion B.J. Penn to describe a particularly tough and challenging workout designed for him."

Really? BJ Penn has never even met Scott. And "newly introduced workout"? In 2006? It was in the Journal in 2002. It was done at virtually every Level I from 2004 through 2008.

I know your friends Don, but a spade is still a spade. And I'm not bowing to anyone's supposed moral superiority because they make their living raising money for charity. We make our living doing something I think is no less noble and Coach's generosity is limitless - a lot of people in this community have been the beneficiaries of it. I can't change the facts - they speak for themselves. But your insinuation that HQ might be acting less than honorably because there's "millions of dollars involved" needs to have the light of truth shined on it. We get NOTHING - NO INCOME - of those "millions." Scott and Greta derive their income from it. That is indisputable. If this whole thing ended tomorrow - no fundraisers at all - CF's financial position would not change one cent. In fact, given the drain on staff time & resources, we would undoubtedly be better off financially.
Dale--First, the name is Dan or Daniel, not Don...I know that seems trivial but this whole thing is about a name after all, so I figure being precise would be important to you. Let's be clear on one very important thing. I have many friends who make their living running CrossFit boxes and I also have spent a tremendous amount of time talking, working, and learning from folks at CFHQ. I have been involved in this community for many years and have been a HUGE proponent of CrossFit and steered as many people as I could get to listen to me to the program. I opened Black and Gold CrossFit and have worked at others. I have nothing but love for CrossFit and what it has done for my fitness, the fitness of my Soldiers and many, many other great and wonderful things. And yes, I know Scott and Greta Zagarino and consider them friends as many of the people whose names I see on this thread have also done in the past. However, my allegiance in this matter belongs to the Soldiers, Sailors, Airmen, Marines and their families that have been the beneficiaries of the last few years of Fight Gone Bad, not Sportsgrants and not CFHQ.

My frustration stems from the fact that this event raised lots of money for a cause I believe a lot of people in the CrossFit community feel very strongly about. Sportsgrants and CFHQ worked harmoniously together, I believe, to raise awareness as well as effectively and efficiently help a lot of people.

This whole thing reminds me of an ugly divorce where the parents are so concerned about slinging mud at one another that they forget about the kids. I promise you affiliates are torn on this. They want to support HQ because HQ has never steered them wrong in the past. They want to support Sportsgrants because they have run a good event in the past and raised significant amounts of money and awareness for CrossFit at the local and national level. Some are scared that by going with the Sportsgrants event they will put their affiliate in jeopardy and in the crosshairs...but the HQ event doesn't have the same pull because it just doesn't have the same feel.

I personally would have a hard time going to the same donors I went to last year because those donors hear FGB and think "Helping Veterans and their families." Again, don't get me wrong...St. Jude’s is a great charity and one many people are passionate about and deserves attention. I just think that in OUR community, FGB, right or wrong, has become synonymous with helping veterans. To change its focus feels a little dishonest.

I don't like the fact that SG brought a cease and desist order against an affiliate. I think there probably was a better way to handle that. I also don't like that someone pretty close to this has started a blog called "The Real Fight Gone Bad" and turned this into a juvenile he said/she said match where each party is trying to vilify the other. Surely there is some middle ground here where CFHQ and SG can both work together to support an event that so many in our community looked forward to every year. I doubt that anyone denies the fact that Sportsgrants should get some compensation for their work and I imagine most believe that CrossFit has the right to hold onto their own named workout.

Hopefully someone somewhere up there in the big cooperate world of fitness will hear the voice of one of their children when I say..."Please stop. We are better than this as a group. Deep down we all want to see the growth of our community. Many of us want to use our talents to help others." I know that someone will read this and think I'm oversimplifying all of this and that because I don't understand the cooperate world. Maybe you're right. What I do understand though is thousands of people standing together, sweating for a common cause, giving their all for something they believe in. That is something special. That is what FGB is about. Take that away from us and no one wins no matter what the courts say.
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Old 02-13-2012, 09:53 AM   #38
Philip Mancini Jr.
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Re: Who has ownership of FGB?

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Originally Posted by Steve Loeding View Post
Isn't there a public info officer in CrossFit ???

Every police, fire, military branch has a PIO - where is the CrossFit PIO ???
That is an excellent idea. It seems reasonable that CFHQ has the resources to establish a position (maybe several depending on the regions) like this.

Good call Steve.
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Old 02-13-2012, 10:23 AM   #39
Jason B Cox
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Re: Who has ownership of FGB?

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Originally Posted by Philip Mancini Jr. View Post
That is an excellent idea. It seems reasonable that CFHQ has the resources to establish a position (maybe several depending on the regions) like this.

Good call Steve.
I can totally get behind this as well. There should have at least been an official email that went out. I'm glad we hadn't signed up yet.
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Old 02-13-2012, 01:30 PM   #40
Ron Murray
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Re: Who has ownership of FGB?

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Originally Posted by Steve Loeding View Post
Isn't there a public info officer in CrossFit ???

Every police, fire, military branch has a PIO - where is the CrossFit PIO ???
I'm on board with this.
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