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Old 07-31-2011, 09:22 PM   #11
Michael Kelley
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Re: LOVE watching the games, BUT.......

You get what you pay for. Reebok and CF just made a ton of money with volunteer judges. They were paid with...t-shirts? If you want consistent and professional judging, you pay for it. You select, hire, train, and compensate judges for doing professional work. If you don't, you get what we are discussing here. L1's who knew the right people to get the hook up to be on the floor of the arena for the event. Select the right folks, bring them in for several weekend training sessions to get the judging right, and then set them loose at the games. There's your solution.
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Old 07-31-2011, 10:24 PM   #12
Robert Fabsik
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Re: LOVE watching the games, BUT.......

I'm not sure, but plenty of the judges were guys from regional and HQ staff who are the guys who run and teach the level 1 and level 2 certs. I recognized a lot of the staff of my level 1 cert. So in theory, you'd think they'd know the movements.

It's definitely a mentally challenging thing to be a judge. You want to be fair, but you also don't want to hinder someone who is busting their butt. Plus when things are moving so fast, depending on where your focus is, you might call a rep short when if fact the hip turn around was fast and you just missed it. Also I think different body types and even clothes worn make it harder or easier to judge a rep. The idea of reflectors on the trochanter and knees is a great one--but then maybe someone would complain CF is going too disco.

In the end, the best way to minimize judging error is to minimize judges. This means try to find events that are outcome based and not based on ones body. Overhead anyhow vs. a snatch. Chest to bar pullups instead of pullups. This might mean having guys overhead squat onto a med ball of equal height for all and getting rid of the need for full extension on the box jump.
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Old 07-31-2011, 10:53 PM   #13
Chris Flower
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Re: LOVE watching the games, BUT.......

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Originally Posted by Gaines DuVall View Post
LOVE LOVE LOVE Crossfit and have enjoyed the games. First of all, Rich is clearly the best overall and will win, leaving no doubt.

But I'm going to say what many others are probably thinking. The games are unorganized, events rules are not clearly explained, and the inconsistency in judging is HORRIBLE. Watching the overhead's this morning was disheartening. Two guys right next to each other. One is NOT going deep enough and getting all his reps counted, another clearly going deeper and getting called for "no rep." I am sure this comment will get plenty of negative replies, but remember, I am a HUGE Crossfit fan and supporter, just speaking about what I have seen.
Agreed. It seemed the only way to get anything was to ask about it during the briefing. The way it appeared, in my opinion, was as if Castro was just making stuff up on the fly including the rules. This may not be the case, but it was the impression I got. I would think they could have the WODs and associated rules printed out for the athletes and hand them out during the briefing to provide clarity.
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Old 08-01-2011, 01:09 AM   #14
Alex Europa
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Re: LOVE watching the games, BUT.......

Being a former judge ('09), I can say that it is definitely difficult to do the right thing. It is so hard to take away reps from someone when they have trained all year for this moment, and they are literally pushing themselves to the point of stupification. Some judges were better at this than others. For example, during Day 1 of the affiliate competition in 2009, we were told by someone in the crowd that none of the teams wanted to come to our lane because we were calling the most "no reps." Whether or not that was reality or perception, I do not know, however I remember pulling our judging team together after we heard this after the 2nd heat and we all decided that we were going to continue on doing the same thing that we had been doing; but it was tough for us knowing that we were making it (apparently) harder on the teams that came through our lane...we almost always had the slowest time (or very nearly the slowest) in each heat; but we were strictly adhering to the movement guidelines that were presented by Dave and Boz. To this day, I don't know if that was the correct decision, but it is what it is...

Regarding making rules up on the fly, while I didn't follow this year's Games, I can say that whenever we would do the athlete briefs in '09, it was inevitable that SOMEONE would come up with some totally random question about a movement that no one had considered. It's impossible to think of every possible way that someone can shorten/speed up a movement. A great example of that is Matt Murski's bouncing bar incident from the '08 Games...until that happened, no one had ever even considered that an athlete would do that.

Lastly, I totally agree that as this goes fully mainstream, CrossFit and Reebok (?), would do well to hire a Judging staff for all of the reasons listed above.

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Old 08-01-2011, 06:43 AM   #15
Ryan Earle
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Re: LOVE watching the games, BUT.......

Watched it on ESPN 3 via Xbox 360. It was well done.
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Old 08-05-2011, 11:38 AM   #16
Pär Larsson
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Re: LOVE watching the games, BUT.......

We need to get away from things that look nice and are easy to put together but hard to judge, and make it easier to judge the stuff that does need judges.

Make things heavier and slower to ease the load on the judges.

Make it ground to overhead instead of one specific movement. Make it an obstacle course and time it and add sandbags to carry if you want to load athletes with weight - there's little to judge when you have an official time on the clock and it's just get from point A to point B.
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Old 08-07-2011, 03:41 AM   #17
Charles Applin
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Re: LOVE watching the games, BUT.......

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Originally Posted by Pär Larsson View Post
We need to get away from things that look nice and are easy to put together but hard to judge, and make it easier to judge the stuff that does need judges.

Make things heavier and slower to ease the load on the judges.

Make it ground to overhead instead of one specific movement. Make it an obstacle course and time it and add sandbags to carry if you want to load athletes with weight - there's little to judge when you have an official time on the clock and it's just get from point A to point B.
YES! Thank you. I love it when I hear the rules are: Ground to overhead anyhow, hands leave ground, squat to some object, ball makes contact to small target else it's air, etc. Form should not dictate a good rep, it should be sought after as it's more efficient and safer.

One great suggestion are using sensors that detect if a distance has been met. Using things like that on squats and overhead movements help remove a lot of guess work from judging.
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