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Old 07-06-2008, 05:50 PM   #1
Andrew G. Greenberg
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Please critique this squat

175 pounds bodyweight, about 255 on the bar. This is all from a set of 5. Safe links.

Thanks.

Squat 1

Squat 2

Squat 3
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Old 07-06-2008, 10:19 PM   #2
Robert Callahan
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Re: Please critique this squat

knees coming foward a bit at the bottom taking some of the tension out of those hamstrings. You have some pretty impressive depth, but if you are looking to just get stronger (doing the Rippetoe style squat) you could cut that squat a bit shorter, just bellow parralell instead of ATG, and be able to do more weight but still hit all of the posterior chain. If you want to train that much ROM though don't let me stop you, it is more than i can do

-Robert
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Old 07-07-2008, 08:19 PM   #3
Joey Powell
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Re: Please critique this squat

You are flexing the hip and knees at the same time. Send the hips BACK first. The knees will go when they need to, in order to keep the chest up. Squat is a "hip" movement, not a knee movement.

A squat is defined by the hip height. Your Knees track forward because you are squating straight down and only make you need to go farther. This puts your knees in a bad place since the Quads not are not the stabilizers of the knee primarily anymore and they become the Extenders of the knee. Since this is not a knee movement, why get them involved? Push the hips back then the knees go along for the ride. the hamstrings, anchored by the tension from you glutes and lower back will open both the hips and knees. The quads will stabilize the movement (ie. keep you knees from wobbling in and out)

Don't stare at the ground. Stare out in front of you and SLIGHTLY down at most. Staring down makes you use your eyes to depth gage. Soon under heavy weight you will lean forward to get your eyes lower, thus making you think your hips are lower than your hips actually are. Accept it wiil only be only your head that low. This is great way to turn a heavy squat into a Post-maximal good-morning.

Pull your chest up. Your nipples need to be aiming towards the wall in front of you. As I told a female trainee tonight...we want :High beams" not "low beams"

If you push your head/neck back into the bar, this should solve both your looking down and chest down problem. If you can get the nipples pointing straight ahead, your head/back and not looking down your entire back will form a rock solid arch.

I'd recommend widenning your stance about 1 1/2" per each foot.

Too slow on the way down and not accerating on the way up.

If you will speed up the eccentric phase (down) while maintaining strong tension in your hams, glutes, and lower back, you will have substantially more power on the concentric phase with the stretch reflex (assuming you do not let the tension go). Practice this with a lower weight first. Learn to lower as fast as possible (by actively pulling with the hamstrings) yet maintain VERY Strong tension.

Is there a reason you are pausing so long between reps?

summary:
Widen stance a little bit
push neck/head back into barbell
keep chest up
look ahead not right at the floor.
Push back with the HIP first
Pull yourself down with the hamstrings
descend faster under tension
Start concentrating on the up portion BEFORE you bottom out.
Maintain the tension at the bottom...reverse like hell
accelerate on the way up.

Overall bad, though.
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Old 07-07-2008, 11:30 PM   #4
Robert Callahan
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Re: Please critique this squat

Quote:
Originally Posted by Joey Powell View Post
summary:
Widen stance a little bit
push neck/head back into barbell
keep chest up
look ahead not right at the floor.
Push back with the HIP first
Pull yourself down with the hamstrings
descend faster under tension
Start concentrating on the up portion BEFORE you bottom out.
Maintain the tension at the bottom...reverse like hell
accelerate on the way up.

Overall bad, though.
I would have to dissagree, if he is trying to do the squat as rx-ed in SS, as i think he is, he is doing it mostly right. He could shoot his butt back a bit more and not let those knees come forward at the bottom but the chest, eyes, and everything else looks great. If his form was "Overall bad" I don't think he would be able to squat almost 1.5 times his body weight... just my thoughts though

-Robert

edit: There is no way that pushing your head and neck back into the bar could be a good thing. A) for lowbar back squat the bar is on your deltoids not your traps so you cannot really do that B) that is going to pull your cervical spine out of alligment with the rest and set you up for problems down the road. A neutral spine is always going to be best, which is exactly what he has.
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Last edited by Robert Callahan : 07-07-2008 at 11:36 PM.
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Old 07-08-2008, 04:36 AM   #5
Joey Powell
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Re: Please critique this squat

If his eyes are aimed where they appear to me... about 3 feet in front, then he is wrong. No where does Rippetoe say to look down at the floor like that in his book(s). And he did not teach that in person either.

I have yet to see anyone squat 2X, 3x, 4, body weight looking down like that. No where will you see picks of anyone pushing heavy weight.

When I say "head/neck" I mean Extend the cervical spine back against the bar firmly, that is all. Not look up.
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Old 07-08-2008, 04:45 AM   #6
Joey Powell
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Re: Please critique this squat

Here you go.

All looking forward/slightly down (at most).

all 2X or more BW

Sitting back.
Chest up.
At max effort and at least 3 of the for are "raw" lifting.
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Old 07-08-2008, 04:53 AM   #7
Joey Powell
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Re: Please critique this squat

From the SS wiki:
"Keep your chest high and the bar balanced above the midfoot, take a deep breath, hold it, and squat down all the way. Do not look up, do not look down, do not look side to side. Keep your eyes focused on a point that is ~ 6-10' ahead of you on the floor, or if you have a wall close enough, focus on a point a few feet above the floor along the wall."

"As you raise out of "the hole", you will be doing 3 basic things almost simultaneously:
You will be pushing your butt upward
You will be pushing your shoulders upward

You will be extending your knees
You will be forcefully contracting your upper and lower back muscles isometrically to maintain tightness in your torso"
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Old 07-08-2008, 09:19 AM   #8
Andrew G. Greenberg
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Re: Please critique this squat

Quote:
Originally Posted by Joey Powell View Post
You are flexing the hip and knees at the same time. Send the hips BACK first. The knees will go when they need to, in order to keep the chest up. Squat is a "hip" movement, not a knee movement.

A squat is defined by the hip height. Your Knees track forward because you are squating straight down and only make you need to go farther. This puts your knees in a bad place since the Quads not are not the stabilizers of the knee primarily anymore and they become the Extenders of the knee. Since this is not a knee movement, why get them involved? Push the hips back then the knees go along for the ride. the hamstrings, anchored by the tension from you glutes and lower back will open both the hips and knees. The quads will stabilize the movement (ie. keep you knees from wobbling in and out)

Don't stare at the ground. Stare out in front of you and SLIGHTLY down at most. Staring down makes you use your eyes to depth gage. Soon under heavy weight you will lean forward to get your eyes lower, thus making you think your hips are lower than your hips actually are. Accept it wiil only be only your head that low. This is great way to turn a heavy squat into a Post-maximal good-morning.

Pull your chest up. Your nipples need to be aiming towards the wall in front of you. As I told a female trainee tonight...we want :High beams" not "low beams"

If you push your head/neck back into the bar, this should solve both your looking down and chest down problem. If you can get the nipples pointing straight ahead, your head/back and not looking down your entire back will form a rock solid arch.

I'd recommend widenning your stance about 1 1/2" per each foot.

Too slow on the way down and not accerating on the way up.

If you will speed up the eccentric phase (down) while maintaining strong tension in your hams, glutes, and lower back, you will have substantially more power on the concentric phase with the stretch reflex (assuming you do not let the tension go). Practice this with a lower weight first. Learn to lower as fast as possible (by actively pulling with the hamstrings) yet maintain VERY Strong tension.

Is there a reason you are pausing so long between reps?

summary:
Widen stance a little bit
push neck/head back into barbell
keep chest up
look ahead not right at the floor.
Push back with the HIP first
Pull yourself down with the hamstrings
descend faster under tension
Start concentrating on the up portion BEFORE you bottom out.
Maintain the tension at the bottom...reverse like hell
accelerate on the way up.

Overall bad, though.
Yes, I agree my squat is a bad example of a proper powerlifting squat max attempt. This is because I am not a powerlifter and I do not train for powerlifting.
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Old 07-08-2008, 09:28 AM   #9
Steven Quadros
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Re: Please critique this squat

This is one of the problems with internet coaching, and something I believe Rip gets annoyed with as well. There are a limitless number of ways to put what I, or Joey, or Robert want a trainee to do into words, yet there might only be one or two of those combinations of words that will actually result in the trainee doing what I'm telling them to do, the way I want them to do it. This is why a good coach can fix many problems very quickly in person, while that same coach may have all kinds of communication problems over the internet; it is inherently flawed in that it is not instantaneous. Beyond that, as I've come to learn through my own coaching experience, everyone is different, and some people will have different torso angles, knee angles, hip angles, bar positions, wrist positions, depths, etc., that might take more than one video from one angle to spot.

There is not, unfortunately, any easy way around this problem, and some feedback is better than none, though it is important for the trainee to realize this, and try all suggestions until they find one that works- FOR THEM.
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Old 07-08-2008, 10:37 AM   #10
Justin Herring
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Re: Please critique this squat

Quote:
Originally Posted by Andrew G. Greenberg View Post
Yes, I agree my squat is a bad example of a proper powerlifting squat max attempt. This is because I am not a powerlifter and I do not train for powerlifting.
What are you talking about? Did you read Joey's posts?
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