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Old 07-06-2011, 07:46 AM   #61
Andrew J. Roberts
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Re: Level 1 Testing and Certification...extra $1000 every 5 years?

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Originally Posted by Chris Cooper View Post
Actually, yes he can.
This is not a democracy. CrossFit Inc. is a business, with staff, risk, and many hours of lost sleep, just like your neighbourhood Affiliate. The fact that you're passionate enough about Mr. Glassman's product - CrossFit - to make these kinds of comments tells me that it's worth the cost to you, whether you're paying money, time...or attention.
There's a dichotomy here. On one hand, hundreds complain that the Level 1 Certification is too easy; on the other, they complain when CFHQ mandates renewal of or continuing education. Convenient? No. Inexpensive? Comparatively. Necessary? Yes.
The threat of legal action doesn't move a conversation forward; it makes everyone entrench, even when it's without merit.
You're missing the point: breach of contract. It has nothing to do with whether it is or is not a democracy.
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Old 07-06-2011, 07:55 AM   #62
Bryan Kemper
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Re: Level 1 Testing and Certification...extra $1000 every 5 years?

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Originally Posted by Andrew J. Roberts View Post
When I bought my cert in March 2008, it was a binding agreement that I was becoming a certified trainer, indefinently. To alter the agreement and force new compliance directives, post agreement, is violation of the agreement. I will fight this poor bit of planning. Glassman should have hired some experienced MBAs awhile back to forecast the marketing/accrediation/legal issues.

I don't disagree accreditation and continuing ed are important, but it's like buying a car and then the company retroactively changing the agreement saying they want $x amount every other year or you lose the car. Sorry that not what I bought... the old Certs have to be grandfathered in.

The university here lets me have legal representation for $10/semester and I'm sure those legal students will have no problem defending a simple premise of contract law. I will continue to advertise myself as CrossFit L1 Trainer and sharpen myself with experience, not cert fees.
Which University are you referring? Your profile states "US Air Force Academy." USAFA does not have a law school or law student, only a Dept of Law and Legal Studies Major that states on its webpage..." The Legal Studies major is not a “pre-law” major, but is designed to provide cadets an enhanced knowledge of the law as part of a broadly focused education."

I hope that you are receiving $10 legal aid from an actual law student.....
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Old 07-06-2011, 08:03 AM   #63
Andrew J. Roberts
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Re: Level 1 Testing and Certification...extra $1000 every 5 years?

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Which University are you referring? Your profile states "US Air Force Academy." USAFA does not have a law school or law student, only a Dept of Law and Legal Studies Major that states on its webpage..." The Legal Studies major is not a “pre-law” major, but is designed to provide cadets an enhanced knowledge of the law as part of a broadly focused education."

I hope that you are receiving $10 legal aid from an actual law student.....
Thank you for informing me about my alma mater but I'm no longer there. However, it did instill within me with a set of principals of right and wrong, and Coach Glassman has reneged on his contract.

I'm not going to comment anymore publically.
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Old 07-06-2011, 08:08 AM   #64
Chris Cooper
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Re: Level 1 Testing and Certification...extra $1000 every 5 years?

I'm not sure to which 'contract' you're referring, but I can't imagine there's no mention of a right to change requirements for Certification at the discretion of CrossFit, Inc.
The reason your post is under such scrutiny is because threats of legal action by your esteemed undergraduate colleagues seems a bit....what's the word?...
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Old 07-06-2011, 08:17 AM   #65
Bryan Kemper
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Re: Level 1 Testing and Certification...extra $1000 every 5 years?

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Originally Posted by Andrew J. Roberts View Post
Thank you for informing me about my alma mater but I'm no longer there. However, it did instill within me with a set of principals of right and wrong, and Coach Glassman has reneged on his contract.

I'm not going to comment anymore publically.
Just going with the information presented...

I understand the Academy principals that were instilled and thank you for sticking with them.

I still think that your line of thinking with this "issue" is a bit off, however.
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Old 07-06-2011, 10:01 AM   #66
Andrew J. Roberts
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Re: Level 1 Testing and Certification...extra $1000 every 5 years?

I'll just say this as an aside of the legal issue: I've NEVER profited from my L1-Cert and I don't ever plan to. I've only trained military personel (who have gone on to train others in the service and get their own cert and certainly brought in more money for HQ) at military affialates and friends. I dont' get paid to do this. In fact, Certs back in early 2008 didn't even come close to being a convient time/location and I spent an additional $1000 in travel/lodging/food just to get to a Cert. Every recert is an additional time away from work/school with travel expenses.

Now that I'm out of the service and in graduate school, my desire is to start a non-profit affialate on campus, for ROTC and like. I just don't have the time or money for this retroactive scheme.
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Old 07-06-2011, 10:47 AM   #67
Brian Strump
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Re: Level 1 Testing and Certification...extra $1000 every 5 years?

Most professionals have to follow either state or federal continuing education requirements. Some are many more thousands of dollars to attain than 1. In 2012, I would not be happy if the last time my trainer, or other professionals for that matter was kept up to date with changes of there profession or new skills was 4 years ago.

$10 x 100 hour in legal fees= $1000 for the re-cert. That will probably cost more than that, win or lose any court case you're planning on.

Waste your time on your clients, not this silly fight.
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Old 07-06-2011, 11:39 AM   #68
Katherine Derbyshire
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Re: Level 1 Testing and Certification...extra $1000 every 5 years?

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In fact, Certs back in early 2008 didn't even come close to being a convient time/location and I spent an additional $1000 in travel/lodging/food just to get to a Cert. Every recert is an additional time away from work/school with travel expenses.

Now that I'm out of the service and in graduate school, my desire is to start a non-profit affialate on campus, for ROTC and like. I just don't have the time or money for this retroactive scheme.
Uh... life is hard? Doctors at non-profit hospitals have the same licensing requirements as any other doctor. Training people for free doesn't give you the right to neglect your education as a trainer.

I haven't read the certification language and am not a lawyer, so I take no position on whether the change in certification requirements is a breach of contract. I do think, though, that the more stringent certification requirements are good for Crossfit as a whole, and think anyone who is serious about affiliating should welcome them.

I also think that someone who can't come up with $1000 every *5 years* fercryinoutloud needs to have a good long think about their business strategy.

Katherine
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Old 07-06-2011, 11:48 AM   #69
Andrew J. Roberts
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Re: Level 1 Testing and Certification...extra $1000 every 5 years?

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Most professionals have to follow either state or federal continuing education requirements. Some are many more thousands of dollars to attain than 1. In 2012, I would not be happy if the last time my trainer, or other professionals for that matter was kept up to date with changes of there profession or new skills was 4 years ago.

$10 x 100 hour in legal fees= $1000 for the re-cert. That will probably cost more than that, win or lose any court case you're planning on.

Waste your time on your clients, not this silly fight.
FIRST of all, the CF retest requirement is not a continuing ed provision. You show up, and take a test... no training. AND it would be unprofessional to test over new concepts, not given in contiuning education but it wouldn't suprise me if it happened. My point is that Coach Glassman needs to some serious forecasting into his model or people will get screwed along the way.

SECOND, it's really none of your business what I do with my time/money but let's just say $10 covers the shebang, because it does except gas to the courthouse. Hard to believe I know, but its a major university and law students have to intern to learn the ropes you know, so they come cheap and this isnt' a complicated subject. Coach Glassman is getting away with this retroactive scheme because it IS easier just to comply and not pay legal fees, even though he legally broke the implicit agreement [because there was no "Trainer Licensing Agreement" like there is now, only a mutual understanding a L1 Cert was indefinite. There was never any mention of recerts in 2008]

THIRD, I don't have clients, only peers I dont' charge.

I said I was done here, but these grossly erroneous assumptions are leading to group think.

Last edited by Andrew J. Roberts : 07-06-2011 at 11:52 AM.
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Old 07-06-2011, 12:00 PM   #70
Brian Strump
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Re: Level 1 Testing and Certification...extra $1000 every 5 years?

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Originally Posted by Andrew J. Roberts View Post
FIRST of all, the CF retest requirement is not a continuing ed provision. You show up, and take a test... no training. AND it would be unprofessional to test over new concepts, not given in contiuning education but it wouldn't suprise me if it happened. My point is that Coach Glassman needs to some serious forecasting into his model or people will get screwed along the way.

SECOND, it's really none of your business what I do with my time/money but let's just say $10 covers the shebang, because it does except gas to the courthouse. Hard to believe I know, but its a major university and law students have to intern to learn the ropes you know, so they come cheap and this isnt' a complicated subject. Coach Glassman is getting away with this retroactive scheme because it IS easier just to comply and not pay legal fees, even though he legally broke the implicit agreement [because there was no "Trainer Licensing Agreement" like there is now, only a mutual understanding a L1 Cert was indefinite. There was never any mention of recerts in 2008]

THIRD, I don't have clients, only peers I dont' charge.

I said I was done here, but these grossly erroneous assumptions are leading to group think.
Good luck. I've got way better things to actually do than this meaningless argument.
I would heed Katherine's advice for yourself.

Unlike yourself, you will not see another post by me on the subject.
It's a growing enterprise, sh@t changes, there are bumps along the way. Welcome them, and grow, or get the ***** out of the way. Or, I guess you could go the American way, and threaten to sue when things don't go your way.

Good luck with your legal battles in the future Andrew; I'll be sure to have Judge Judy on DVR for the years to come.
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