21-15-9 workouts

Matt McManmon · 04-02-2004, 03:53 PM

Alot the WOD's with weights revolve around the 21-15-9 rep approach involving two alternating exercises. sometimes just 1round for time, but usually for 3 rounds.

say for example: it was a 225 deadlift day/HSPU
for smaller crossfitters thats ALOT of volume at about 70% of my 1rm. Id probally be sore for a month lol.

For instance yesterday, i did 21-15-9 of bench press and pull ups. i did 135 bench (145 bodyweight) i managed to pull this off without much problem splitting it into 7-7-7, 5-5-5,3-3-3, however now today my chest and front delts are majorly sore. also i didnt really get winded doing the workout, i just got an incredible pump. which is a good thing to work because alot of the time after a tough wrestling match where im pushed to the max i feel like that.

I kinda feel like how i used to when i would do sets of 3x8. Now ive been under the impression since i read pavels book awhile ago that soreness is completely unneeded. But everyone always says go with the highest amount of weight you can complete the wod with. should i have gone lighter and then eased into this? im still new to crossfit.

J. D. Hernandez · 04-02-2004, 09:50 PM

In my opinion I would say yes, reduce the load. It's the hormonal response induced by the effort that the crossfiter's seek, not nessecarily the total load. I remeber someone posting (check the archives) that if the average crossfitter is approximatley 175 (stated figure, not sure where it was derived from), then you should take the prescribed weight and find out what percentage of your own bodyweight to use. (ex. 135 = 77% of 175 so you should use approx 77% of your bodyweight (for you this would be 112)).

J.D.

Larry Lindenman · 04-03-2004, 07:03 AM

I would say you left out a very important element: FOR TIME. This is just a guess, but if your using 80 - 90% of your body weight, you were probably using greater rest periods. These workouts are like balancing acts: weight/time. Next time reduce the load a little and attempt to reduce total time to finish. I would say once you fly(!) through the workout with little rest, then increase the weight (via % of body weight).

Mike Yukish · 04-03-2004, 07:33 AM

I find that if I have any breaks in sets, then my power = weight/time number goes down significantly. Especially so if I took a partial set right up to failure. Definitely increases the forced break in the middle of a full set. So I shoot for the max that I can complete in a full set, and no more.

Of course, I always miss it above or below by at least a little, which makes doing the WOD a head game for me.

Matt McManmon · 04-03-2004, 01:21 PM

Thanks for the advice and info guys! i know what to do now

Matt McManmon · 04-03-2004, 01:58 PM

When you do a 21-15-9 workout for time and 3 rounds, are they three nonstop rounds? ive noticed in the comments section on the frontpage people will post there individual times for each round like 3:45, 3:55:4:03 and then add them all up. are they resting between each one of those rounds or do they just keep going?

Mike Minium · 04-03-2004, 04:08 PM

Matt,

For timed efforts there should be as little rest as possible (none, if possible--hasn't happened for me yet!). The clock never stops, even for rests.

So when you see the times broken out like in your example, it most likely is the split time for each round.

Hope this helps,

Mike

Dale S. Jansen · 04-07-2004, 05:53 PM

words of encouragement to those starting. after almost a full YEAR i finally notice shorter rest periods and less breaking down of the reps into smaller groups. have never lessened the loads so have probably slowed progress by lifting too heavy. oh, well...live and learn. dale

Emil Berengut · 04-08-2004, 12:10 PM

I have had to take a step back from heavier loads and focus on technique.I started Crossfit in August and pretty much just jumped into the heavier loads. I noticed that I was getting very burned out and also injured more often. I find that with the decreased loads I can work the technique of the o-lifts more and also recover faster. I hope I will be aware enough to increase loads as it becomes easier.

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04-02-2004, 03:53 PM	#1
Matt McManmon Departed Profile: Join Date: Jan 1970 Posts: 110	Alot the WOD's with weights revolve around the 21-15-9 rep approach involving two alternating exercises. sometimes just 1round for time, but usually for 3 rounds. say for example: it was a 225 deadlift day/HSPU for smaller crossfitters thats ALOT of volume at about 70% of my 1rm. Id probally be sore for a month lol. For instance yesterday, i did 21-15-9 of bench press and pull ups. i did 135 bench (145 bodyweight) i managed to pull this off without much problem splitting it into 7-7-7, 5-5-5,3-3-3, however now today my chest and front delts are majorly sore. also i didnt really get winded doing the workout, i just got an incredible pump. which is a good thing to work because alot of the time after a tough wrestling match where im pushed to the max i feel like that. I kinda feel like how i used to when i would do sets of 3x8. Now ive been under the impression since i read pavels book awhile ago that soreness is completely unneeded. But everyone always says go with the highest amount of weight you can complete the wod with. should i have gone lighter and then eased into this? im still new to crossfit.

04-02-2004, 09:50 PM	#2
J. D. Hernandez Departed Profile: Join Date: Jan 1970 Posts: 122	In my opinion I would say yes, reduce the load. It's the hormonal response induced by the effort that the crossfiter's seek, not nessecarily the total load. I remeber someone posting (check the archives) that if the average crossfitter is approximatley 175 (stated figure, not sure where it was derived from), then you should take the prescribed weight and find out what percentage of your own bodyweight to use. (ex. 135 = 77% of 175 so you should use approx 77% of your bodyweight (for you this would be 112)). J.D.

04-03-2004, 07:03 AM	#3
Larry Lindenman Affiliate Profile: Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Chicago Illinois Posts: 2,769	I would say you left out a very important element: FOR TIME. This is just a guess, but if your using 80 - 90% of your body weight, you were probably using greater rest periods. These workouts are like balancing acts: weight/time. Next time reduce the load a little and attempt to reduce total time to finish. I would say once you fly(!) through the workout with little rest, then increase the weight (via % of body weight).

04-03-2004, 07:33 AM	#4
Mike Yukish Member Profile: Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: State College PA Posts: 448	I find that if I have any breaks in sets, then my power = weight/time number goes down significantly. Especially so if I took a partial set right up to failure. Definitely increases the forced break in the middle of a full set. So I shoot for the max that I can complete in a full set, and no more. Of course, I always miss it above or below by at least a little, which makes doing the WOD a head game for me.

04-03-2004, 01:21 PM	#5
Matt McManmon Departed Profile: Join Date: Jan 1970 Posts: 110	Thanks for the advice and info guys! i know what to do now

04-03-2004, 01:58 PM	#6
Matt McManmon Departed Profile: Join Date: Jan 1970 Posts: 110	When you do a 21-15-9 workout for time and 3 rounds, are they three nonstop rounds? ive noticed in the comments section on the frontpage people will post there individual times for each round like 3:45, 3:55:4:03 and then add them all up. are they resting between each one of those rounds or do they just keep going?

04-03-2004, 04:08 PM	#7
Mike Minium Member Profile: Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Oakland CA Posts: 860	Matt, For timed efforts there should be as little rest as possible (none, if possible--hasn't happened for me yet!). The clock never stops, even for rests. So when you see the times broken out like in your example, it most likely is the split time for each round. Hope this helps, Mike

04-07-2004, 05:53 PM	#8
Dale S. Jansen Member Profile: Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: tucson arizona Posts: 279	words of encouragement to those starting. after almost a full YEAR i finally notice shorter rest periods and less breaking down of the reps into smaller groups. have never lessened the loads so have probably slowed progress by lifting too heavy. oh, well...live and learn. dale

04-08-2004, 12:10 PM	#9
Emil Berengut Member Profile: Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Washington DC Posts: 101	I have had to take a step back from heavier loads and focus on technique.I started Crossfit in August and pretty much just jumped into the heavier loads. I noticed that I was getting very burned out and also injured more often. I find that with the decreased loads I can work the technique of the o-lifts more and also recover faster. I hope I will be aware enough to increase loads as it becomes easier.