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Fitness Theory and Practice. CrossFit's rationale & foundations. Who is fit? What is fitness?

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Old 03-13-2009, 01:14 PM   #81
Robert Callahan
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Re: What is considered fit?

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Originally Posted by Jamie J. Skibicki View Post
I would disagree, well to some extent. To say "fit" with no context, then you are correct. But within a group, fit has a very specific meaning. Fit means something different to a cyclist, swat team, SEAL, pararescue, strongman, delivery guy, firefighter, etc. To people who need a level of fitness beyond that of the average populace, fit is easier to define in a meaningful way.
See I don't like that. Yes every specialty group when asked what fit will say as an example the elite level participants in whatever their specialty is. But being really good at a specialized task is not fit, that is a misuse of the term. That is ... being really good at a specialized task. Doesn't mean achieving that is easy, or should not be very highly respected and admired, but it is not necessarily "fit".

I didn't read the first 8 some odd pages of this thread, just this last one, so maybe I am repeating things, but I don't see what is wrong with the CF definition of fitness? Work Capacity Across Broad Time and Modal Domains. Whoever can generate the most work across broad time and modal domains is fittest? I don't think it can get more clear cut than that?
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Old 03-13-2009, 01:20 PM   #82
Chris Walls
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Re: What is considered fit?

Robert I think where things get muddied is that definition does define, for me, fitness. Others argue that it defines GPP Fitness, which is not ideal for anyone and everyone. Which is true, fitness, and sport specific competency are different animals. One can be competent and even elite at a specialty, but not be fit. Just as one can be fit (ie: top Crossfitter) and not be competent at a specialty. (ie: not winning the tour de France)

I'm sure we'll just have to agree to disagree, but there is no "fit at soccer" or "fit at 'sport'", there is general and all encompassing fitness and then there is sport specific competency and skills, not sport specific fitness.
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Old 03-13-2009, 01:28 PM   #83
Phillip Garrison
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Re: What is considered fit?

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Originally Posted by Robert Callahan View Post
See I don't like that. Yes every specialty group when asked what fit will say as an example the elite level participants in whatever their specialty is. But being really good at a specialized task is not fit, that is a misuse of the term. That is ... being really good at a specialized task. Doesn't mean achieving that is easy, or should not be very highly respected and admired, but it is not necessarily "fit".

I didn't read the first 8 some odd pages of this thread, just this last one, so maybe I am repeating things, but I don't see what is wrong with the CF definition of fitness? Work Capacity Across Broad Time and Modal Domains. Whoever can generate the most work across broad time and modal domains is fittest? I don't think it can get more clear cut than that?
Why is being really really good at something not being "fit". How do define fitness? There is alot more to fitness than just work capacity.
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Old 03-13-2009, 01:35 PM   #84
Chris Walls
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Re: What is considered fit?

Is there? What else is there? If you look at all the ways CrossFit defines fitness, the 10 general physical skills, IWCABTAMD, even the new 3D model... what else is there?

If you're a long distance runner and you ignore 6-7/10 of the general physical skills you are not fit. You may be a competent or even elite specialist, but are not fit.

Give me some of your other valid definitions of fitness.
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Old 03-13-2009, 01:38 PM   #85
Robert Callahan
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Re: What is considered fit?

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Originally Posted by Chris Walls View Post
I'm sure we'll just have to agree to disagree, but there is no "fit at soccer" or "fit at 'sport'", there is general and all encompassing fitness and then there is sport specific competency and skills, not sport specific fitness.
I completely agree. Fitness is not a vague changing thing. If nothing else it is a description of who is best able to survive and reproduce and therefore propagate the species. That means you cannot change what fitness is just because you like one sport better than another. As Chris said, There is Fitness and there is Sport Specific Competency. Two WAY different things.

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Why is being really really good at something not being "fit". How do define fitness?
Because being really really good at one thing does not mean you can do the most work across broad time and modal domains.

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Originally Posted by Phillip Garrison View Post
There is alot more to fitness than just work capacity.
Like what?
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Old 03-13-2009, 01:51 PM   #86
Katherine Derbyshire
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Re: What is considered fit?

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Originally Posted by Robert Callahan View Post
I didn't read the first 8 some odd pages of this thread, just this last one, so maybe I am repeating things, but I don't see what is wrong with the CF definition of fitness? Work Capacity Across Broad Time and Modal Domains. Whoever can generate the most work across broad time and modal domains is fittest? I don't think it can get more clear cut than that?
Work capacity does not measure flexibility, coordination, agility, balance, or accuracy. If you're missing five of the ten general physical skills, how can you be fit?

Granted, many of the Crossfit movements do require these skills to some degree. But just as even "elite" Crossfitters are not particularly strong relative to powerlifters, they are not particularly flexible/agile/balanced relative to gymnasts, dancers, or martial artists.

Solid GPP is a great foundation for just about any physical activity. But once you have that foundation, what do you do with it? I think that question is really at the heart of this debate. Fit for what?

Katherine
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Old 03-13-2009, 01:56 PM   #87
Ed Haywood
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Re: What is considered fit?

Jumping in late here, and somewhat OT, or at least OT from where it has drifted. Sorry.

Most people I know find the scores posted on the main site WOD somewhat dismaying. Set aside the question of whether some scores are exaggerated or benefit from too-loose standards for Rx. Fundamentally, for most of us the stats are meaningless because we have no basis for comparison. We don't know anyone there.

I've found it much more useful to compare my scores to friends I know well, and to other folks in my affiliate whom I've seen work out. Over time you get a much better appreciation of your strengths and weaknesses that way, which is very helpful for improvement.

Shameless plug: the workout log website we set up does just that. Everyone logs their time on the gym page, and everyone else can see the results, like a whiteboard. But you can also log onto your athlete page from home and see gym results too. There is also a way to pick friends to watch, so you see their scores automatically. I have a buddy in Iraq and another in the Army in Colorado, and we compare scores every day via this method.
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Old 03-13-2009, 01:58 PM   #88
Jamie J. Skibicki
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Re: What is considered fit?

I think the part thats lacking in the "work output across many domains" is what are you using to produce the work? Is it skill based, does it need explosivness or just strength, etc.
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Old 03-13-2009, 01:59 PM   #89
Robert Callahan
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Re: What is considered fit?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Katherine Derbyshire View Post
Work capacity does not measure flexibility, coordination, agility, balance, or accuracy. If you're missing five of the ten general physical skills, how can you be fit?

Granted, many of the CrossFit movements do require these skills to some degree. But just as even "elite" CrossFitters are not particularly strong relative to powerlifters, they are not particularly flexible/agile/balanced relative to gymnasts, dancers, or martial artists.

Solid GPP is a great foundation for just about any physical activity. But once you have that foundation, what do you do with it? I think that question is really at the heart of this debate. Fit for what?

Katherine
Fit for life. That is what fitness is, not for any specific task, but any and every task that may come at you.

I would argue that while work capacity doesn't measure flexibility, coordination, agility, balance, or accuracy it does not have too! If you are not sufficiently flexible, coordinated, agile, balanced, or accurate you will not have the best work capacity across broad time and modal domains. The only degree of competency in those skills required is such that it increases your work capacity. Anything else is specialized and irrelevant to fitness.

I don't understand. What other definition for fitness is there?? How about instead of nitpicking a perfectly sound definition you provide a better one? If you cannot then maybe it is not such a bad definition?
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Old 03-13-2009, 02:00 PM   #90
Robert Callahan
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Re: What is considered fit?

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Originally Posted by Jamie J. Skibicki View Post
I think the part thats lacking in the "work output across many domains" is what are you using to produce the work? Is it skill based, does it need explosivness or just strength, etc.
Anything Jamie. No restrictions.
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