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Fitness Theory and Practice. CrossFit's rationale & foundations. Who is fit? What is fitness?

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Old 03-10-2009, 04:48 PM   #31
Scott Spencer
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Re: What is considered fit?

i just looked at the orginal post again. Why are we discussing "are you fit" in an absolute term. Comparing it to the average fat citizen. This guy, a fellow CF'er, asked about defining fit. He asked if a seven minute Fran is fit or what are some simular goals.

Do you see what i'm getting at? This is a diffrent animal than comparing it to the average fat person. His question is what would be fit in terms of performance of crossfit workouts and goals. Is a 7 minute fran fit or should you shoot for sub 4? Lets get back on track with what the thread was about and stop worrying about the theory of fitness.

In my opinion there are several things to look at. If you go the CF games website they list the winners from the last two years. In each one they list some bench mark workouts and how they did. these are some good places to compare some standards. How close are you to what the top 5 did? I think most of the top 5 have Fran times sub 3. (i keep using Fran. i dont know why) So maybe then a fit time is sub 5. But i think the average gym goer would be able to finish it in under 12. So maybe that unfit. But we could go on and on with each bench mark. I like the list i posted above. Somebody put some thought into it.
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Old 03-10-2009, 05:52 PM   #32
John Alston
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Re: What is considered fit?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Katherine Derbyshire View Post
Please name a situation in which general fitness is a "poor fit." What does that phrasing even mean?

As far as injuries go, compare a person who turns an ankle landing a box jump on the way to a firebreather Kelly time, to an overweight person who can't climb a flight of stairs without stopping to rest. Any definition of "wellness" that makes the overweight person "healthier" than the injured firebreather is, IMO, useless. My own experience with injuries is that they are extremely frustrating, but they go away. Poor general fitness just keeps on eroding quality of life, day after day. There's a big difference.

Katherine
Sorry, but that's the point I am trying to make. I dislike the term general fitness, and think it's empty in any but the "hey, he seems generally fit" casual talk. If I present you a specific task - say, deadlift as much as possible, your "general fitness" training may even prove to be a hindrance if you were coming from a strength specific background before beginning a period of "general fitness training." Coach himself has said as much "if you come to use with a 4 minute mile, in 6 weeks it will be slower"
Apply same lesson to intelligent marathon training, etc. Your supposedly general fit plan can be found to not fit in many examples.
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Old 03-10-2009, 08:08 PM   #33
Jeff S Johnson
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Re: What is considered fit?

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Originally Posted by Scott Spencer View Post
But i think the average gym goer would be able to finish it in under 12.

Sorry, but I wholly disagree with this part. The "average gym goer" probably cannot manage 9 legit pullups, much less 45 in 12 minutes. And thrusters are the hard part of that workout! And I think we can all agree that said average gym goer probably hasn't done below-parallel squats with 95 pounds (though they may have done 295 with 3" of ROM)

Not that it really matters, but I would consider anyone who can do an RX Fran in 15 minutes or less to be fit. Not elite fit, but "fit" by a reasonable standard.

Just another couple of opinions that don't mean a whole lot, I suppose though.
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Old 03-10-2009, 08:15 PM   #34
Michael Bell
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Re: What is considered fit?

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Originally Posted by Scott Spencer View Post
I think most of the top 5 have Fran times sub 3. (i keep using Fran. i dont know why) So maybe then a fit time is sub 5. But i think the average gym goer would be able to finish it in under 12. So maybe that unfit. But we could go on and on with each bench mark. I like the list i posted above. Somebody put some thought into it.
Under 12? Maybe if they are CFers. For the average globogym goer, I'm not sure they could finish Fran at all, and if they did it would be disastrously slow.

I think some of the others who pointed out that if you can do most of the WODs as presecribed in a reasonable amount of time you are fit are correct.
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Old 03-10-2009, 08:46 PM   #35
Jason David
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Re: What is considered fit?

I would give you a CF score of 680...you know, like FICO credit scores?? the higher it goes though the harder it gets...

good work man!
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Old 03-11-2009, 06:52 AM   #36
Shawn Casey
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Re: What is considered fit?

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Originally Posted by John Alston View Post
So from an everyday standpoint, you could get to totally functional for most Western living people with something well below the intensity of xfit or most other programs. Some inclined or loaded walking, moderate lifting, pickup basketball or whatever, and intelligent stretching/yoga, semi-regularly as feels good, and there you go. Extreme modal domains not functional for 99% of us.
Sorry I missed ya. This is all true for the most part. One thing that 100% should be ready for is the unknowable. I could go through life CFing, be a great CFer and never need it until that lady gets stuck under her smartcar. Me to the rescue.
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Old 03-11-2009, 07:03 AM   #37
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Re: What is considered fit?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Katherine Derbyshire View Post
Please name a situation in which general fitness is a "poor fit." What does that phrasing even mean?

As far as injuries go, compare a person who turns an ankle landing a box jump on the way to a firebreather Kelly time, to an overweight person who can't climb a flight of stairs without stopping to rest. Any definition of "wellness" that makes the overweight person "healthier" than the injured firebreather is, IMO, useless. My own experience with injuries is that they are extremely frustrating, but they go away. Poor general fitness just keeps on eroding quality of life, day after day. There's a big difference.

Katherine

your problem, katherine, is that you make too much %$#@! sense.

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Old 03-11-2009, 07:26 AM   #38
Scott Erb
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Re: What is considered fit?

To the OP -
I like the Seattle standards and track those for goals and progress. Also, just saw the Albany standards, which are very similar, but have more intermediate stops for goal setting. These are very good as well.

Although I don't think Fran is the be-all of standards (see the recent CFJ article), under 7 is probably a good measure of intermediate for CF, under 5 is advanced, under 4 is elite, and under 3 is mutant.

We're all better at some things than others and better in some time domains than others. You may be level IV/elite on the Seattle standards in push-type exercises and only level 2 in work. This gives a great guideline for tailoring your training to your weaknesses. As an example - I love Cindy and hate Fran, a reflection of my performance on those WODs. I'll get better at Fran and start to like her more as I do.

Pick a yardstick, whether Seattle, Albany, or something else (logsitall.com, the comments) and figure out where you are weak in modality (types of exercise - mine is overhead work) and time domains (length of work - I'm better at 20+min and less so at under 10 min). Train the modal weaknesses as part of your warm-up and skill work. Train the time-domain weaknesses by following the WOD and not letting yourself sub in stuff you like - attack your worst WODs with the most ferocity.
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Old 03-11-2009, 11:29 AM   #39
Jacob Tsypkin
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Re: What is considered fit?

"Elite" is a percentage thing, i.e., it is not a question of what your times are, but how your times compare to the best times. The elite athletes are not those with a certain "Fran" or "Helen" time, or a certain % bodyweight deadlift, etc, but those who have the best "Fran" and "Helen" times and the highest % bodyweight deadlifts. If the world record on "Fran" is 2:00 (just using that as an example,) elite would be no higher than, say, 2:10-2:15. Not to take away from athletes with slower times...a 3 or 4 minute "Fran" is still a hell of an athletic feat, and is certainly indicative of fitness. It's just not elite.
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Old 03-11-2009, 12:45 PM   #40
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Re: What is considered fit?

Exactly. Again it comes down to defining "fit" as being arbitrary.
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