OLYMPIC DIETS - Page 2

Michael Rutherford · 08-09-2004, 09:38 AM

Thanks Keith- At my age I get my comedians confused.

Ross Hunt · 08-09-2004, 09:46 AM

Hey Jay,

Can you remind me of what your macronutrient breakdowns are? As I recall you do Zone leaning towards low carbs. Do you experience drowsiness when you up the carb percentage - even if it's low GI carbs? Also, do you spike insulin post-workout?
I really feel fine doing Paleo low carb for most of my meals (egg whites, walnuts) but if I add carbs in (egg whites, apple+peanut butter), I get the drowsiness. I suspect that this might go away if I stopped spiking insulin once a day after every workout, but I'll have to wait until my bodyweight is higher before I risk stopping the spike.

Thanks,

Ross

P.S.: How's the knee?

Jay Edvardz · 08-09-2004, 12:11 PM

Ross,

The ratios actually vary on a day to day basis (as of this week I am starting to incorporate some of Art DeVany's Evolutionary Fitness concepts to my diet; lots of variation in calories, ratios, etc., on a day to day basis). I try to just go with what my body is telling me. I can tell you this much, I feel my best when I eat meat, veggies, and nuts - no fruit. If I add in a small amount of fruit it doesnt seem to bother me much, though I get hungry quicker. If I start adding in a good deal of fruit, I start to get lightheaded and lethargic. I've been toying around with post workout meals, sometimes I spike and sometimes I dont. I've been trying to eat only whole foods so a post workout meal might be half a lb of ground turkey with 3 bananas. During that post workout period, I can eat a good deal of carbs without suffering any ills. Where are you at right now, bodyweight wise, and where do you want to be?

The knee is doing pretty damn good actually. Last week, I deadlifted 290 for 5 reps - felt really good. I'm finally back to squatting and all. Thanks for asking.

-Jay

Ross Hunt · 08-09-2004, 03:28 PM

Jay,

Right now I'm hovering between 160 to 165, depending on what the WOD looked like over the last couple days. I stand over 6', so I want to be at least 170-175 eventually, but I figure that I can still make a lot of progress with respect to all aspects of my fitness at this bodyweight; I'm planning to just keep above 160 at all costs until Christmas vacation, when I have time to live in the squat rack, go up to 175, and stabilize around 170-175.
Good to hear that you're better.

Ross

Jay Edvardz · 08-09-2004, 03:37 PM

Ross,

Sounds like a solid plan. Werent you using massive eating for a while? I recall you saying it was working for you - any reason you stopped following it?

-Jay

Ross Hunt · 08-09-2004, 06:53 PM

Ah, Massive Eating.

It worked to put on 10 pounds of lean body mass, but doing an empty insulin spike (a spike without glycogen depletion from exercise beforehand) without heavy squatting three times a week would just have made me fat, and felt incredibly nasty, besides.

I'm not really sure exactly what I should call my diet right now. I could call it Massive Eating minus an insulin spike, or Paleo minus fruits and plus a post-workout insulin spike, or Zone minus non-fibrous carbs and plus a post-workout spike. All of these diets converge into a sort of blurry unity when you modify them to make them work as maintenance diets.

Even when I put on more mass this winter, I don't think I'll do two insulin spikes a day. I'm not convinced that it's necessary.

Ross

Robert Wolf · 08-10-2004, 07:57 AM

Ross-
That was one of the most sane and rational descriptions of some of the boards more favored nutritional approaches. Thank you!
Robb

Beth Moscov · 08-10-2004, 09:06 AM

What do you mean by insulin spike? I get the general idea but why and how?

Ross Hunt · 08-10-2004, 09:49 AM

Robb,

Thanks for the compliment!

Beth,

I spike insulin post-workout in order to better repair damage done by an intense workout and in order to take greatest advantage of the muscle-building properties of insulin.
I spike insulin by consuming high-glycemic carbohydrates (sugars, mostly bananas and skim milk) along with high Biologic Value protein (skim milk and whey protein powder), with about 2 grams of carbohydrate to 1 gram of protein.

I do not fully understand the science behind this; all I know is that spiking insulin post-workout greatly enhances recovery from the workout, especially if you take protein or BCAAs before the workout, too. The bodybuilding guys at T-nation.com have covered insulin spikes and related topics exhaustively; here are two of the best articles on the subject:

http://www.t-nation.com/findArticle....e=body_141post

http://www.t-nation.com/findArticle....e=body_142post

The tone of the articles is frequently juvenile, but the info is good, and hey, what can you expect from "Testosterone Nation"?

Beth Moscov · 08-10-2004, 11:34 AM

Thanks Ross. That is what I was imagining it to mean. For me, I find that focusing on the protien pre and post workout does my recovery best. With carbs pre workout. I think I have trouble with insulin and find higher protien throughout my diet works best and mostly low gi carbs. I will go read the articles though as it will help me understand when you guys write about it.

beth

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08-09-2004, 09:38 AM	#11
Michael Rutherford Affiliate Profile: Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Leawood Kansas Posts: 200	Thanks Keith- At my age I get my comedians confused.

08-09-2004, 09:46 AM	#12
Ross Hunt Member Profile: Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Annapolis MD Posts: 914	Hey Jay, Can you remind me of what your macronutrient breakdowns are? As I recall you do Zone leaning towards low carbs. Do you experience drowsiness when you up the carb percentage - even if it's low GI carbs? Also, do you spike insulin post-workout? I really feel fine doing Paleo low carb for most of my meals (egg whites, walnuts) but if I add carbs in (egg whites, apple+peanut butter), I get the drowsiness. I suspect that this might go away if I stopped spiking insulin once a day after every workout, but I'll have to wait until my bodyweight is higher before I risk stopping the spike. Thanks, Ross P.S.: How's the knee?

08-09-2004, 12:11 PM	#13
Jay Edvardz Departed Profile: Join Date: Jan 1970 Posts: 445	Ross, The ratios actually vary on a day to day basis (as of this week I am starting to incorporate some of Art DeVany's Evolutionary Fitness concepts to my diet; lots of variation in calories, ratios, etc., on a day to day basis). I try to just go with what my body is telling me. I can tell you this much, I feel my best when I eat meat, veggies, and nuts - no fruit. If I add in a small amount of fruit it doesnt seem to bother me much, though I get hungry quicker. If I start adding in a good deal of fruit, I start to get lightheaded and lethargic. I've been toying around with post workout meals, sometimes I spike and sometimes I dont. I've been trying to eat only whole foods so a post workout meal might be half a lb of ground turkey with 3 bananas. During that post workout period, I can eat a good deal of carbs without suffering any ills. Where are you at right now, bodyweight wise, and where do you want to be? The knee is doing pretty damn good actually. Last week, I deadlifted 290 for 5 reps - felt really good. I'm finally back to squatting and all. Thanks for asking. -Jay

08-09-2004, 03:28 PM	#14
Ross Hunt Member Profile: Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Annapolis MD Posts: 914	Jay, Right now I'm hovering between 160 to 165, depending on what the WOD looked like over the last couple days. I stand over 6', so I want to be at least 170-175 eventually, but I figure that I can still make a lot of progress with respect to all aspects of my fitness at this bodyweight; I'm planning to just keep above 160 at all costs until Christmas vacation, when I have time to live in the squat rack, go up to 175, and stabilize around 170-175. Good to hear that you're better. Ross

08-09-2004, 03:37 PM	#15
Jay Edvardz Departed Profile: Join Date: Jan 1970 Posts: 445	Ross, Sounds like a solid plan. Werent you using massive eating for a while? I recall you saying it was working for you - any reason you stopped following it? -Jay

08-09-2004, 06:53 PM	#16
Ross Hunt Member Profile: Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Annapolis MD Posts: 914	Ah, Massive Eating. It worked to put on 10 pounds of lean body mass, but doing an empty insulin spike (a spike without glycogen depletion from exercise beforehand) without heavy squatting three times a week would just have made me fat, and felt incredibly nasty, besides. I'm not really sure exactly what I should call my diet right now. I could call it Massive Eating minus an insulin spike, or Paleo minus fruits and plus a post-workout insulin spike, or Zone minus non-fibrous carbs and plus a post-workout spike. All of these diets converge into a sort of blurry unity when you modify them to make them work as maintenance diets. Even when I put on more mass this winter, I don't think I'll do two insulin spikes a day. I'm not convinced that it's necessary. Ross

08-10-2004, 07:57 AM	#17
Robert Wolf Member Profile: Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Chico CA Posts: 2,669	Ross- That was one of the most sane and rational descriptions of some of the boards more favored nutritional approaches. Thank you! Robb

08-10-2004, 09:06 AM	#18
Beth Moscov Member Profile: Join Date: May 2007 Location: Boulder Creek CA Posts: 1,269	What do you mean by insulin spike? I get the general idea but why and how?

08-10-2004, 09:49 AM	#19
Ross Hunt Member Profile: Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Annapolis MD Posts: 914	Robb, Thanks for the compliment! Beth, I spike insulin post-workout in order to better repair damage done by an intense workout and in order to take greatest advantage of the muscle-building properties of insulin. I spike insulin by consuming high-glycemic carbohydrates (sugars, mostly bananas and skim milk) along with high Biologic Value protein (skim milk and whey protein powder), with about 2 grams of carbohydrate to 1 gram of protein. I do not fully understand the science behind this; all I know is that spiking insulin post-workout greatly enhances recovery from the workout, especially if you take protein or BCAAs before the workout, too. The bodybuilding guys at T-nation.com have covered insulin spikes and related topics exhaustively; here are two of the best articles on the subject: http://www.t-nation.com/findArticle....e=body_141post http://www.t-nation.com/findArticle....e=body_142post The tone of the articles is frequently juvenile, but the info is good, and hey, what can you expect from "Testosterone Nation"?

08-10-2004, 11:34 AM	#20
Beth Moscov Member Profile: Join Date: May 2007 Location: Boulder Creek CA Posts: 1,269	Thanks Ross. That is what I was imagining it to mean. For me, I find that focusing on the protien pre and post workout does my recovery best. With carbs pre workout. I think I have trouble with insulin and find higher protien throughout my diet works best and mostly low gi carbs. I will go read the articles though as it will help me understand when you guys write about it. beth