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Exercises Movements, technique & proper execution

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Old 05-27-2011, 08:59 AM   #51
Michael Dowling
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Re: are power cleans useful for the majority of lifters?

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Originally Posted by Andrew G. Greenberg View Post
So to the OP, if you stop cleaning because you have a trap tweak or whatever, then I don't think you understand what "training" means!
different goals, my goal is not to be a competitive olympic weightlifter (i do hope to do some power-lifting meets for fun eventually), my goal is mostly adding as much strength and muscle as naturally possible before i hit 40, and up my conditioning so i can still enjoy hiking, MTN biking etc...

i mean if you practice law for a living would you spend countless hours learning medicine just for the heck of it?

i know it's shocking to some people but a lot of folks don't care about olympic lifts or becoming proficient at them. i was doing the power cleans to work on power and strength (and because the program called for it), not so i can become a student of olympic weightlifting. you will never see me do a snatch, full clean with a jerk etc... no reason to, the injury risk is increased much more because of the complexity of the lifts and they don't really aid me in getting to my goals at all. sure C&J and snatches will build some strength but there are other exercises that will do a much better job of it.

i certainly don't want to spend five years with light weights and instructional plates before i can step it up, that sounds a bit extreme.
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I am going to work on the mobility stuff, i am stiff as hell and my ROM is pretty pathetic.
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Old 05-27-2011, 09:19 AM   #52
Brian Degenaro
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Re: are power cleans useful for the majority of lifters?

Andrew, yes it takes years to become very proficient and lift reasonable weights at them, but the learning period to develop acceptable technique is pretty short. You can teach someone to lift well and lift good weights for their strength within a year. It's not impossible, it's a matter of good coaching. After that it takes years to develop strength to perform at the world level and refine technique a wee bit more.
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Old 05-27-2011, 09:24 AM   #53
Andrew G. Greenberg
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Re: are power cleans useful for the majority of lifters?

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Originally Posted by Michael Dowling View Post
different goals, my goal is not to be a competitive olympic weightlifter (i do hope to do some power-lifting meets for fun eventually), my goal is mostly adding as much strength and muscle as naturally possible before i hit 40, and up my conditioning so i can still enjoy hiking, MTN biking etc...

i mean if you practice law for a living would you spend countless hours learning medicine just for the heck of it?

i know it's shocking to some people but a lot of folks don't care about olympic lifts or becoming proficient at them. i was doing the power cleans to work on power and strength (and because the program called for it), not so i can become a student of olympic weightlifting. you will never see me do a snatch, full clean with a jerk etc... no reason to, the injury risk is increased much more because of the complexity of the lifts and they don't really aid me in getting to my goals at all. sure C&J and snatches will build some strength but there are other exercises that will do a much better job of it.

i certainly don't want to spend five years with light weights and instructional plates before i can step it up, that sounds a bit extreme.
______________

I am going to work on the mobility stuff, i am stiff as hell and my ROM is pretty pathetic.
What I said applies to CrossFit or any other athletic endeavor. I was just using weightlifting as an example. My point is that it takes countless hours of practice to become proficient at a given physical skill.

If you are not interested in mastering the movements of CrossFit or whatever, then of course that is your choice.

I'm not sure where you got the idea of light weights and instructional plates. I certainly didn't mention anything that suggested you should spend an inordinate amount of time with light weights. What I am suggesting is that in the course of training over a long period of time, you will one day reach a point in which you have learned all the basics and are ready to start mastering the movement. That process of training involves adding resistance/intensity/difficulty over time. I thought this was clear.

Finally, the overarching point that I have been trying to get you to understand is that if you encounter a movement you have trouble with, you (meaning anyone) should not just give up but recognize that physical mastery takes a long time. This applies to all sports, OK?

I wish you the best of luck in reaching your particular goals.
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Old 05-27-2011, 09:25 AM   #54
Andrew G. Greenberg
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Re: are power cleans useful for the majority of lifters?

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Originally Posted by Brian Degenaro View Post
Andrew, yes it takes years to become very proficient and lift reasonable weights at them, but the learning period to develop acceptable technique is pretty short. You can teach someone to lift well and lift good weights for their strength within a year. It's not impossible, it's a matter of good coaching. After that it takes years to develop strength to perform at the world level and refine technique a wee bit more.
Yes, this is correct and I couldn't agree more. Thanks for the clarification.
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Old 05-27-2011, 09:57 AM   #55
Andrew Bell
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Re: are power cleans useful for the majority of lifters?

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Originally Posted by Tamara Cohen View Post
....I am running linear progression using the Greyskull LP model with high bar squats at the moment.
Tamera,

How are you liking the Greyskull LP? What were your reasons for switching over to it from SS? Which program in the ebook are you doing? You doing the neck harness?

I'm a huge Greyskull fan fyi.
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Old 05-27-2011, 10:29 AM   #56
James Orr
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Re: are power cleans useful for the majority of lifters?

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Weightlifting is kind of like martial arts, in a sense. You work really hard for four or five years and get a black belt. Then, your instructor tells you that you are ready to start learning martial arts.
Or your 2nd degree!
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Old 05-27-2011, 10:42 AM   #57
Andrew G. Greenberg
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Re: are power cleans useful for the majority of lifters?

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Or your 2nd degree!
Exactly.
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Old 05-27-2011, 12:12 PM   #58
Tamara Cohen
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Re: are power cleans useful for the majority of lifters?

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Originally Posted by Andrew Bell View Post
Tamera,

How are you liking the Greyskull LP? What were your reasons for switching over to it from SS? Which program in the ebook are you doing? You doing the neck harness?

I'm a huge Greyskull fan fyi.
Well, I was never doing straight up SS. I ran LP on my squats and bench. When I had to reset my squats, I switched to high bar. That was in January. Since then, I've been doing different combinations of high bar and front squats.

I'm trying to gain to move up a weight class, and the easiest way for me to gain is to go back to LP. I'd have to switch to intermediate programming on low bar, but I should be able to run LP on high bar for a while. So, I'm just using 5-5-5+ twice a week for high bar with my regular Oly programming.

So far, so good.

I ended LP on low bar at 3x5x193. I set my low bar REALLY low at 135 to start. Yesterday, I did 160 for 5-5-12.
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Old 05-27-2011, 12:24 PM   #59
James Orr
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Re: are power cleans useful for the majority of lifters?

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Originally Posted by Andrew G. Greenberg View Post
Exactly.
This is an aside, but Chinese martial arts have various titles to designate different ranks.

1st degree = Shifu (or instructor)
5th degree = Shi Gung (or master)
8th degree = Da Shifu (or grand master)

I'm lucky enough to study under a Da Shifu. Last night we were talking about why we practice, and he said that a friend had asked him something when he was getting ready for his 4th degree.

"Is this really necessary?" Meaning, don't you think you're good enough? Da Shifu told him, "It has nothing to do with the other guy. This is about me and learning what I can do"

Last edited by James Orr : 05-27-2011 at 12:27 PM.
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Old 05-27-2011, 12:31 PM   #60
Andrew Bell
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Re: are power cleans useful for the majority of lifters?

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Originally Posted by Tamara Cohen View Post
Well, I was never doing straight up SS. I ran LP on my squats and bench. When I had to reset my squats, I switched to high bar. That was in January. Since then, I've been doing different combinations of high bar and front squats.

I'm trying to gain to move up a weight class, and the easiest way for me to gain is to go back to LP. I'd have to switch to intermediate programming on low bar, but I should be able to run LP on high bar for a while. So, I'm just using 5-5-5+ twice a week for high bar with my regular Oly programming.

So far, so good.

I ended LP on low bar at 3x5x193. I set my low bar REALLY low at 135 to start. Yesterday, I did 160 for 5-5-12.
I had read where you had worked up a special program with Rip's help and was wondering why the switch to Greyskull, thanks for the reply. Good luck in the bigger weight class, sounds like fun!!
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