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Fitness Theory and Practice. CrossFit's rationale & foundations. Who is fit? What is fitness?

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Old 11-04-2011, 07:10 PM   #81
Paulo Santos
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Re: CrossFit: The Superior Sport? Controversial Argument.

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Originally Posted by Devin Ford View Post
Not a problem Paulo! How is the westside treating you? I personally have found Olympic lifting and a crapton of squats to raise my overall strength the greatest (everything from press to deadlift to snatch). Just recently my squat jumped from 370 to 400 in 3 weeks.

I could use some of your running! Over 15 minutes kills me ha. Which is surprising since gymnastics/bodyweight is my strong suit.

Forgot to mention: Here is the exact programming I did to get drastic gains quick, took the "Tim Ferriss" type approach, check it out, maybe it can give you some pointers! http://elitefitblog.com/train-smart-...d-30lbs-lifts/ (safe)
Westside is great. Best program I have used to get strong. I actually toyed around with doing Olympic lifts on the DE days and ut was working pretty good until I joined a new gym. I had a great running foundation from soccer and the military, but I found that doing some sprints have helped get even better. I hate doing them, but the 4x800 meter runs helped a lot (3 minute rest between rounds.). I read your site and you have some great info. I love doing the Olympic lifts, so once I'm done in a few more weeks, I may have to look at Olympic lifting again. Do you just follow the workouts from mikes gym, or did you program your own stuff?
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Old 11-04-2011, 07:18 PM   #82
Joe Gasparre
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Re: CrossFit: The Superior Sport? Controversial Argument.

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Originally Posted by Mark E. Wallace View Post
Agreed. Lash? No. Unjustly accuse? Yep.


- Mark

So you came to this thread read through about 3 pages saw your friend was "unjustly accused" and decided to join the melee against Devin... good good. Very productive use of your time.
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Old 11-04-2011, 07:20 PM   #83
Joe Gasparre
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Re: CrossFit: The Superior Sport? Controversial Argument.

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Originally Posted by Mauricio Leal View Post
This is the definition of trolling, whether deliberate or not.
How is Devin trolling all he is doing is posting an argument which he welcomes debate to. Healthy debate, seems as though you are the one trolling and hating on his topic.


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Originally Posted by Mauricio Leal View Post
If you are not a troll, you would be satisfied from the substantive responses that have already been provided and leave it at that. I, and many others I'm sure, are deliberately abstaining from this thread. It is a discussion that has been had many times. If you are serious about having this debate in good faith then you will spend some time on the boards reading and not inflaming debate which, earnest or not, will almost always come across as either trolling or naive from such a new member.
Also Mauricio, back in my day (2007 since apparently seniority is an authority on these boards), we welcomed debates like this. This is how people decided whether to go Paleo or Zone, to do a strength bias or not. So instead of whining that this has been posted anymore stop trolling which is exactly what you are doing and hit next thread. Inflaming debate is a good thing especially when people are mature about it which this is absolutely not the case. All Devin wanted to do is make an argument and have a little back and forth. Instead half the people are complaining about how dumb this post is yet not one of the complainers posted a valid argument. But I guess that's what I would expect from "such a new member."
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Old 11-04-2011, 08:27 PM   #84
Mauricio Leal
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Re: CrossFit: The Superior Sport? Controversial Argument.

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Originally Posted by Joe Gasparre View Post
Inflaming debate is a good thing especially when people are mature about it which this is absolutely not the case.
I don't think we agree. Next thread.
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Old 11-04-2011, 08:38 PM   #85
Mark E. Wallace
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Re: CrossFit: The Superior Sport? Controversial Argument.

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Originally Posted by Joe Gasparre View Post
So you came to this thread read through about 3 pages saw your friend was "unjustly accused" and decided to join the melee against Devin... good good. Very productive use of your time.
All that I did was ask him to cite where Katherine insulted him. If you want to call that "joining the melee," then I just don't know what to tell you.

It took all of about 2 minutes to determine that nothing else in the thread (the main topic included) was worth my time aside from defending a friend. Had I decided to contribute my thoughts on the main topic, it would have been more of the same that Devin has seen from others; namely, that I think he has done a poor job of making and defending his point. Others had already basically said what I would have said, so I saw no sense in adding on. I did see sense in defending Katherine, whether she felt she needed it or not.

You're also in no position to determine what's a productive use of my time, so I recommend not trying.

- Mark
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Last edited by Mark E. Wallace : 11-04-2011 at 08:44 PM.
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Old 11-04-2011, 09:21 PM   #86
Doug Blankenship
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Re: CrossFit: The Superior Sport? Controversial Argument.

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Originally Posted by Joe Gasparre View Post
So you came to this thread read through about 3 pages saw your friend was "unjustly accused" and decided to join the melee against Devin... good good. Very productive use of your time.
And that's pretty much what you did when you joined this thread. You came in to defend your friend.
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Old 11-04-2011, 09:24 PM   #87
Joe Gasparre
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Re: CrossFit: The Superior Sport? Controversial Argument.

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Originally Posted by Mark E. Wallace View Post
All that I did was ask him to cite where Katherine insulted him. If you want to call that "joining the melee," then I just don't know what to tell you.

It took all of about 2 minutes to determine that nothing else in the thread (the main topic included) was worth my time aside from defending a friend. Had I decided to contribute my thoughts on the main topic, it would have been more of the same that Devin has seen from others; namely, that I think he has done a poor job of making and defending his point. Others had already basically said what I would have said, so I saw no sense in adding on. I did see sense in defending Katherine, whether she felt she needed it or not.

You're also in no position to determine what's a productive use of my time, so I recommend not trying.

- Mark
So you still sifted through 6 whole pages (which took you two minutes apparently) found where Devin says:

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Originally Posted by Devin Ford View Post
Funny, that's all you have done to me since the start.
Because Katherine said:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Katherine Derbyshire View Post
Helpful hint: insulting people does not usually encourage them to accept your point of view.

Katherine
I see that as a sarcastic tone, so Devin gave a little sass back, which he has been getting unmerited by his article. Devin didn't insult anyone and actually put up DEBATABLE points of views. She made the accusation that he was being insulting to convert peoples views to his own. Which was untrue, he simply claimed the sports he put forth didn't fit his definition of "superior" (but you read it so fast you probably missed it). Also Katherine is an adult and I think she handled herself well enough without you looking over her back for her. Only reason I'm here is because I want to debate his points and stumbled upon the Batman of Crossfit forums over here, protecting the downtrodden. So unless you have anything about the article which Katherine did have although I didn't agree with her last comment I respect her points.
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Old 11-04-2011, 09:25 PM   #88
Donald Lee
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Re: CrossFit: The Superior Sport? Controversial Argument.

Arguing for the sake of arguing. I see a lot of that in this thread.

Regarding age, it's often easy to see how old people are or how mature they are in their thought process by the things they write. When I look back at things I've written, said, or thought over the past some odd years, I get embarrassed at how naive or young I was at the time.

Like Katherine pointed out, there's a difference between logic and persuasion. For people, it's not just about being right or wrong. There are finer nuances to human interaction that people who are prone to argument and philosophical banter tend not to understand so well.

I'm not intending to stir the pot or attack anyone personally or otherwise. I'm just trying to point out a bit why people are responding negatively in this thread.
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Old 11-04-2011, 09:29 PM   #89
Joe Gasparre
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Re: CrossFit: The Superior Sport? Controversial Argument.

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Originally Posted by Doug Blankenship View Post
And that's pretty much what you did when you joined this thread. You came in to defend your friend.
This was my first post on this thread:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe Gasparre View Post
I liked the article, it was a bold statement and although I disagree I respect you taking on the issue. You stated this as an "Argument" not a fact and I think that's were many of these people are getting it wrong for calling this a ridiculous post/article.

For the people who are saying to scrap the article and then giving counterpoints to Devin's argument are exactly what he wants. Why should something that opens up an argument get scrapped? I love arguing, especially with Devin, because I find myself learning not only from other but myself.

I realize why I feel something or why I'm wrong. So I think that, Devin, you should restate the article to reinforce the idea that you want the argument to better your own understanding of this topic.

Sports to me are like books everyone has their own favorite category. Some people like sci-fi, some non-fiction, some people like romance. It's a matter of opinion and lifestyle. And that's my argument!
That was my first argument, and my thought out one:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe Gasparre View Post
Seems as though if you are under a certain age on these boards you are granted a 'good argument but you're too young to understand'. I'm 21 as well, and one of Devin's good friends. I disagree with his argument but think we should be measured not on age but on consistency of our arguments. I not only take it as an insult but as condescending behavior. If I'm wrong tell me I'm wrong and why, age has no bearing on the matter.

Devin defined the word "Superior". By his definition other sports aren't as superior as Crossfit. This doesn't mean he's bashing (please quote him on something offensive that doesn't pertain to his definition) other sports just saying why they do not fit his definition. There are two things I would do in order to discredit his argument:

1.) Re-define "Superior"

This to me is like saying what in Crossfit is superior. You can't define it. Running? Lifting? Gymnastics? Superior isn't just one thing in the world of sports and fitness. Sports and fitness are different as well. Video gaming is now a sport, racing cars is a sport, chess is a sport. They all can be superior in there own domains. My dad thinks car racing is the greatest sport ever, I disagree and he doesn't care because it's my opinion. So that's one way to argue him. I expect a retaliation Devin!

2.) Put up arguments about why other sports fit his definition

I'm going to argue that the carry over from other sports can be greater. Devin looks at sports as not only in the arena but outside in the 'real world'. Who says sports have to "carry-over"? No one, and I believe sports take place inside the arena. Therefore there is no way of comparing any sport. But that's my opinion.
Another argument I would like to take on is his view of "carry over": Does this mean physical carry over, mental carry over, financial carry over? To me carry over means how you preform in society in this day and age (getting what you need/want). So from my stand point I feel as though money and reputation is a key component in the way we live today and therefore "carry over" from other sports are much greater. Crossfit Games offers $250k to both winners of both categories. Do you think Rich or Annie is going to bank that cash and be set for life? Or walk into a trendy restaurant and get a free Paleo meal? I don't think so. I don't think anyone can live off of a quarter million. It may free some time up to train and you may be able to take a year off of work. But you would need to win again and again to be financially secure. So carry over for other sports in this regard is much greater, because lets face it money is make the world go...well it buys me coffee at least. Other wise my beautiful face and sweet charm would be getting me pumpkin spice latte's for life. So as you see my definition of carry over is also different than Devin's.

So instead of scolding Devin for putting up a ballsy argument he wanted to get debate over, hence the question mark and "Argument" in his title, I'll debate him learn his views and many of my own in the process. Keep it up Devin you know ignore the hate embrace the debate.
Those are both my posts pertaining to the topic of the thread. Both were disagreeing with Devin's argument (the topic) respectively.
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Old 11-04-2011, 09:33 PM   #90
Joe Gasparre
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Re: CrossFit: The Superior Sport? Controversial Argument.

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Originally Posted by Donald Lee View Post
Arguing for the sake of arguing. I see a lot of that in this thread.

Regarding age, it's often easy to see how old people are or how mature they are in their thought process by the things they write. When I look back at things I've written, said, or thought over the past some odd years, I get embarrassed at how naive or young I was at the time.

Like Katherine pointed out, there's a difference between logic and persuasion. For people, it's not just about being right or wrong. There are finer nuances to human interaction that people who are prone to argument and philosophical banter tend not to understand so well.

I'm not intending to stir the pot or attack anyone personally or otherwise. I'm just trying to point out a bit why people are responding negatively in this thread.
I agree with you completely. I don't understand the negativity toward Devin or his argument! I disagree with it, but what Devin wanted to do was just get other peoples thoughts on the topic and have them poke holes in his argument just to get some healthy debate. That's why he called it controversial. Damn was he right!
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