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Fitness Theory and Practice. CrossFit's rationale & foundations. Who is fit? What is fitness?

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Old 11-04-2011, 11:34 AM   #31
Daniel Wheeler
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Re: CrossFit: The Superior Sport? Controversial Argument.

Edit: Nothing constructive

Last edited by Daniel Wheeler : 11-04-2011 at 11:37 AM.
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Old 11-04-2011, 11:40 AM   #32
Paulo Santos
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Re: CrossFit: The Superior Sport? Controversial Argument.

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Originally Posted by Andrew N. Casey View Post
while i don't completely agree with you about sports needing an offense and defense, i have thought many times that some head to head competition events at the games would be a good idea. some of the old american gladiator type events, with some slight varaiation, could work well. there are millions of ideas, but it would certainly add to the level of competition in my opinion. in the team events if nothing else.
Everyone has different ideas on what a sport is and I respect that. People get offended when I say that such and such event is not a sport, but I don't mean it in a bad way. I just have a set of rules, which in this case, a sport has to have an offense and a defense. I absolutely love to watch track and field, but I don't consider the 100m or 200m races a sport. It is still one of my favorite things to watch. Nor do I consider a lot of the Olympic events as a sport. I consider them sporting events. Racing is.......well, racing. Love that too and I have a ton of respect for them.

I remember a comedian once say that in order to be a sport, they had to have cheerleaders. So if competitive cheer leading was a sport, they'd have their own cheerleaders. LOL.
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Old 11-04-2011, 11:51 AM   #33
Richard Colon
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Re: CrossFit: The Superior Sport? Controversial Argument.

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Originally Posted by Devin Ford View Post
Hey Rich, love the arguments you made and they make sense. Not sure why you are bashing me, I am not saying anyone is "not at my level" and if you knew me you would know I was quite humble. At the same time I like creating open minded discussions because thats where I learn best, and I have seen most other benefit from it too.

That being said, your right! I tried to do the impossible of comparing incomparable things, I will revise this and send it out again!
Hey Devin, no disrespect meant at all. My apologies if I offended you personally. You laid it out there and opened the can of worms so I am simply critiquing and/or criticizing your stances on it. So its an attack against your opinion rather than you personally. I don't know you. I'm sure I'd love to hang with you.

Well done on your Crossfit accomplishments! As Katherine said though, I think a big issue is generally a lack of appreciation for just how FIT athletes are in other sports. I spent a single hour in a Krav Maga class and there is no Crossfit WoD - Kalsu, Double Fran, whatever, that felt anywhere near what I felt that day in Krav Maga. Everything changes when you are getting punched in the face at the same time!
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Old 11-04-2011, 12:00 PM   #34
Devin Ford
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Re: CrossFit: The Superior Sport? Controversial Argument.

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Originally Posted by Neil Kanterman View Post
You have a lot to learn about what kind of article would "create open minded discussion". Boldly claiming your own method to be superior and insulting other sports is not the way to go about that.
You have a lot to learn about what critical thinking and argumentation is. If you have a statement you want to prove true, you create an argument and try your dam-nest to support it. You then open it to argumentation to see if it stands, if it does its deemed true, if it doesn't then you found a loop hole and need to revise the statement to get to truth. That is what I have done, what have you done? I am NOT insulting any other sport, did you even read the argument?
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Old 11-04-2011, 12:08 PM   #35
Devin Ford
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Re: CrossFit: The Superior Sport? Controversial Argument.

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Originally Posted by Richard Colon View Post
Hey Devin, no disrespect meant at all. My apologies if I offended you personally. You laid it out there and opened the can of worms so I am simply critiquing and/or criticizing your stances on it. So its an attack against your opinion rather than you personally. I don't know you. I'm sure I'd love to hang with you.

Well done on your Crossfit accomplishments! As Katherine said though, I think a big issue is generally a lack of appreciation for just how FIT athletes are in other sports. I spent a single hour in a Krav Maga class and there is no Crossfit WoD - Kalsu, Double Fran, whatever, that felt anywhere near what I felt that day in Krav Maga. Everything changes when you are getting punched in the face at the same time!
Hey Rich! No worries, I agree completely that the the appreciation of how fit most athletes are is underrated. I trained in Krav a lot as well and I used to train MMA with a buddy of mine before he became NYPD and he kicked my *** more then any workout has. Simply trying to put together an argument why the sport itself and its athletes have more to offer.

An interesting question that came up was this: how can a training methodology even be a sport?
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Old 11-04-2011, 12:12 PM   #36
Joe Gasparre
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Re: CrossFit: The Superior Sport? Controversial Argument.

Seems as though if you are under a certain age on these boards you are granted a 'good argument but you're too young to understand'. I'm 21 as well, and one of Devin's good friends. I disagree with his argument but think we should be measured not on age but on consistency of our arguments. I not only take it as an insult but as condescending behavior. If I'm wrong tell me I'm wrong and why, age has no bearing on the matter.

Devin defined the word "Superior". By his definition other sports aren't as superior as Crossfit. This doesn't mean he's bashing (please quote him on something offensive that doesn't pertain to his definition) other sports just saying why they do not fit his definition. There are two things I would do in order to discredit his argument:

1.) Re-define "Superior"

This to me is like saying what in Crossfit is superior. You can't define it. Running? Lifting? Gymnastics? Superior isn't just one thing in the world of sports and fitness. Sports and fitness are different as well. Video gaming is now a sport, racing cars is a sport, chess is a sport. They all can be superior in there own domains. My dad thinks car racing is the greatest sport ever, I disagree and he doesn't care because it's my opinion. So that's one way to argue him. I expect a retaliation Devin!

2.) Put up arguments about why other sports fit his definition

I'm going to argue that the carry over from other sports can be greater. Devin looks at sports as not only in the arena but outside in the 'real world'. Who says sports have to "carry-over"? No one, and I believe sports take place inside the arena. Therefore there is no way of comparing any sport. But that's my opinion.
Another argument I would like to take on is his view of "carry over": Does this mean physical carry over, mental carry over, financial carry over? To me carry over means how you preform in society in this day and age (getting what you need/want). So from my stand point I feel as though money and reputation is a key component in the way we live today and therefore "carry over" from other sports are much greater. Crossfit Games offers $250k to both winners of both categories. Do you think Rich or Annie is going to bank that cash and be set for life? Or walk into a trendy restaurant and get a free Paleo meal? I don't think so. I don't think anyone can live off of a quarter million. It may free some time up to train and you may be able to take a year off of work. But you would need to win again and again to be financially secure. So carry over for other sports in this regard is much greater, because lets face it money is make the world go...well it buys me coffee at least. Other wise my beautiful face and sweet charm would be getting me pumpkin spice latte's for life. So as you see my definition of carry over is also different than Devin's.

So instead of scolding Devin for putting up a ballsy argument he wanted to get debate over, hence the question mark and "Argument" in his title, I'll debate him learn his views and many of my own in the process. Keep it up Devin you know ignore the hate embrace the debate.
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Old 11-04-2011, 12:22 PM   #37
Neil Kanterman
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Re: CrossFit: The Superior Sport? Controversial Argument.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Devin Ford View Post
You have a lot to learn about what critical thinking and argumentation is. If you have a statement you want to prove true, you create an argument and try your dam-nest to support it. You then open it to argumentation to see if it stands, if it does its deemed true, if it doesn't then you found a loop hole and need to revise the statement to get to truth. That is what I have done, what have you done? I am NOT insulting any other sport, did you even read the argument?
Wow where to start...

First, the statement that you want to "prove true" is an opinion and therefore unable to be factually proven. One sport being deemed superior to another is simply your opinion. I feel that Cookies and Cream is the superior flavor of ice cream...

Second, when you create a criteria that favors your chosen outcome...that's called bias. YOU have deemed "carryover into real life" as a core point of one sport being superior over the other. Why? You wanted to make a comparison in a way that supported your pre-established opinion, that's why.

Third:

"Figure skaters can eat cookies and still skate"

You don't feel this is insulting to competitive figure skaters? It is condescending...and insulting to the time, effort and dedication it takes to master that sport.

You are either unable or unwilling to understand that your (and other's) elitist attitude is probably the most bothersome thing that more level-headed people can find wrong with this massively growing CrossFit phenomenon. I'm sick of having to explain to people on the outside that "most people really aren't like that"
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Old 11-04-2011, 12:25 PM   #38
Daniel Wheeler
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Re: CrossFit: The Superior Sport? Controversial Argument.

Stupidity does not discriminate based on age.

Cookies and Cream is the superior ice cream.

That is fact Neil.

Last edited by Daniel Wheeler : 11-04-2011 at 12:29 PM.
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Old 11-04-2011, 12:33 PM   #39
Devin Ford
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Re: CrossFit: The Superior Sport? Controversial Argument.

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Originally Posted by Joe Gasparre View Post
Seems as though if you are under a certain age on these boards you are granted a 'good argument but you're too young to understand'. I'm 21 as well, and one of Devin's good friends. I disagree with his argument but think we should be measured not on age but on consistency of our arguments. I not only take it as an insult but as condescending behavior. If I'm wrong tell me I'm wrong and why, age has no bearing on the matter.

Devin defined the word "Superior". By his definition other sports aren't as superior as Crossfit. This doesn't mean he's bashing (please quote him on something offensive that doesn't pertain to his definition) other sports just saying why they do not fit his definition. There are two things I would do in order to discredit his argument:

1.) Re-define "Superior"

This to me is like saying what in Crossfit is superior. You can't define it. Running? Lifting? Gymnastics? Superior isn't just one thing in the world of sports and fitness. Sports and fitness are different as well. Video gaming is now a sport, racing cars is a sport, chess is a sport. They all can be superior in there own domains. My dad thinks car racing is the greatest sport ever, I disagree and he doesn't care because it's my opinion. So that's one way to argue him. I expect a retaliation Devin!

2.) Put up arguments about why other sports fit his definition

I'm going to argue that the carry over from other sports can be greater. Devin looks at sports as not only in the arena but outside in the 'real world'. Who says sports have to "carry-over"? No one, and I believe sports take place inside the arena. Therefore there is no way of comparing any sport. But that's my opinion.
Another argument I would like to take on is his view of "carry over": Does this mean physical carry over, mental carry over, financial carry over? To me carry over means how you preform in society in this day and age (getting what you need/want). So from my stand point I feel as though money and reputation is a key component in the way we live today and therefore "carry over" from other sports are much greater. Crossfit Games offers $250k to both winners of both categories. Do you think Rich or Annie is going to bank that cash and be set for life? Or walk into a trendy restaurant and get a free Paleo meal? I don't think so. I don't think anyone can live off of a quarter million. It may free some time up to train and you may be able to take a year off of work. But you would need to win again and again to be financially secure. So carry over for other sports in this regard is much greater, because lets face it money is make the world go...well it buys me coffee at least. Other wise my beautiful face and sweet charm would be getting me pumpkin spice latte's for life. So as you see my definition of carry over is also different than Devin's.

So instead of scolding Devin for putting up a ballsy argument he wanted to get debate over, hence the question mark and "Argument" in his title, I'll debate him learn his views and many of my own in the process. Keep it up Devin you know ignore the hate embrace the debate.
Refreshing to see someone who can actually argue. If someone were to discredit the argument attacking the defined terms would be the way, in this case that's "superior" and "sport". I defined "superior" in a way that I thought had most bearing in the sport realm. This, being the title won for the respective sport (as this is the highest level reached in the sport), the carry-over into life (physical carry over) and the demands placed upon the athlete (mentally & physically). If you disagree with this definition that would make total sense and would understand why you dont agree with the argument.

The hardest to argue would be the third claim, demands placed on the athlete.

In my definition of "superior" I believe CrossFit would fit. Would others fit? Not that I saw, but then again I put this out there for others to critique.
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Old 11-04-2011, 12:38 PM   #40
Zane Jones
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Re: CrossFit: The Superior Sport? Controversial Argument.

Well don't I feel like a bag of hammers. This whole time I thought I was just exercising.

Last edited by Zane Jones : 11-04-2011 at 12:42 PM.
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