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Old 01-25-2012, 10:21 PM   #1
Andrew Breyer
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Training fasted

Hi,

I know that a lot of you train fasted. I, for one, train much better without anything in my stomach.

I am wondering, though, if anyone has seen any scientific literature covering the subject. I know that conventionally, it is taught to have something like: "oatmeal, dry cereal, milk, yogurt, bagel with or without butter/cream cheese, or a PBJ" (Sports Nutrition Textbook)

I am writing a paper about nutrient timing, and am wondering if anyone has any good studies in mind.

Thanks,
Andrew
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Old 01-26-2012, 05:57 AM   #2
Darryl Shaw
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Re: Training fasted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Andrew Breyer View Post
Hi,

I know that a lot of you train fasted. I, for one, train much better without anything in my stomach.

I am wondering, though, if anyone has seen any scientific literature covering the subject. I know that conventionally, it is taught to have something like: "oatmeal, dry cereal, milk, yogurt, bagel with or without butter/cream cheese, or a PBJ" (Sports Nutrition Textbook)

I am writing a paper about nutrient timing, and am wondering if anyone has any good studies in mind.

Thanks,
Andrew
The availability of glycogen is one of the main limiting factors in athletic performance so training fasted, where glycogen stores are seriously depleted before you start training, tends to be counterproductive. Muscle glycogen is less of an issue than liver glycogen in this regard because it can only be used to provide energy for the working muscle so stores aren't depleted significantly at rest. Liver glycogen on the other hand is used at ~10g/h at rest to maintain blood glucose levels and ~60g/h during exercise so even a short fast of 8-10 hours will reduce your capacity for exercise. Basically fasted training is a bad idea perpetuated by proponents of fad diets and has no place in serious athletic training.

International Society of Sports Nutrition position stand: Nutrient timing.

Position of the American Dietetic Association, Dietitians of Canada, and the American College of Sports Medicine: Nutrition and Athletic Performance.

*All links wfs*
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Old 01-26-2012, 06:01 AM   #3
Michael Dries
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Re: Training fasted

Martin Berkhan over at leangains.com (some curse words) cites this study http://www.springerlink.com/content/w8712615714k8150/ (WFS) as evidence of why he recommends folks train in the fasted state.

However note that this study and what Martin recommends is weight training/resistance training alone and NOT conditioning.
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Old 01-26-2012, 06:07 AM   #4
Kim Allen
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Re: Training fasted

Hope you don't mind me jumping in to ask a question that relates to this.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Darryl Shaw View Post
The availability of glycogen is one of the main limiting factors in athletic performance so training fasted, where glycogen stores are seriously depleted before you start training, tends to be counterproductive. Muscle glycogen is less of an issue than liver glycogen in this regard because it can only be used to provide energy for the working muscle so stores aren't depleted significantly at rest. Liver glycogen on the other hand is used at ~10g/h at rest to maintain blood glucose levels and ~60g/h during exercise so even a short fast of 8-10 hours will reduce your capacity for exercise. Basically fasted training is a bad idea perpetuated by proponents of fad diets and has no place in serious athletic training.

International Society of Sports Nutrition position stand: Nutrient timing.

Position of the American Dietetic Association, Dietitians of Canada, and the American College of Sports Medicine: Nutrition and Athletic Performance.

*All links wfs*
My normal CF workouts are at 6PM. I have oatmeal in the morning and some sweet potato at noon with my lunch. I have been forcing myself to eat a little protein, fat and more sweet potato at 3PM even though I'm not hungry, but I want my glycogen stores sufficient enough for my 6PM CF MetCon. Do I really need those carbs or would my carbs at breakfast and lunch be sufficient enough for glycogen stores to fuel the workout?

Thanks
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Old 01-26-2012, 06:26 AM   #5
Darryl Shaw
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Re: Training fasted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kim Allen View Post
Hope you don't mind me jumping in to ask a question that relates to this.



My normal CF workouts are at 6PM. I have oatmeal in the morning and some sweet potato at noon with my lunch. I have been forcing myself to eat a little protein, fat and more sweet potato at 3PM even though I'm not hungry, but I want my glycogen stores sufficient enough for my 6PM CF MetCon. Do I really need those carbs or would my carbs at breakfast and lunch be sufficient enough for glycogen stores to fuel the workout?

Thanks
Whether you'd benefit from more carbs would depend on how active you are but if you're like the typical carb averse CrossFitter you'll almost certainly perform better with some additional CHO so it's worth experimenting with it to see how you get on.
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Old 01-26-2012, 07:04 AM   #6
Kim Allen
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Re: Training fasted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Darryl Shaw View Post
Whether you'd benefit from more carbs would depend on how active you are but if you're like the typical carb averse CrossFitter you'll almost certainly perform better with some additional CHO so it's worth experimenting with it to see how you get on.
Thanks Darryl! I'm desk bound all day but climb the stairs 4 times a day and was doing 22 flights at a time, for a total of 88 flights per day, but have since cut it back to 44 flights per day as I'm trying to gain muscle so going lighter on too much cardio so I'm probably better off keeping it in considering it's only a quarter cup of sweet potato anyway so it's not like I'm getting a ton pre workout anyways.
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Old 01-26-2012, 08:49 AM   #7
Joey Shishineh
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Re: Training fasted

Great article from CrossFit Invictus on this topic. (WFS). Also, Jeremy Mullins recommends:
3 to 4 hours before activity: Eat normal meal, not change.
2 hours earlier, eat a smaller meal, about half size.
1 hour before, eat a ¼-sized meal and perhaps reduce fat. You want just enough to
get hunger out of the way.
Right before, can eat or drink something with some carbs, since that will allow your
blood sugar and insulin levels to climb, but your blood sugar level will not have time
to fall.
As long as your activity is < 2hrs, you shouldn't be eating during...if it is > 2hrs, try Gu!
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Old 01-26-2012, 04:12 PM   #8
Marcial Lafuente
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Re: Training fasted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Darryl Shaw View Post
Basically fasted training is a bad idea perpetuated by proponents of fad diets and has no place in serious athletic training.
Kenian elite athletes train twice a day. Usually they do the first session, the hardest one, in the fasted state.
http://www.ku.ac.ke/images/stories/d...ent-Intake.pdf (WFS)

I have been traing in a fasted state for a year and an half and I haven´t yet seen any loss in capacity. I think it takes a long time for the glycogen to be depleted. Maybe more that 2 hours according to an experiment I read.
And I have read about triathletes and maraton runners training in fasted state. The theory behind it is that you become more efficient using fat as fuel and become more glycogen sparing.

https://lirias.kuleuven.be/bitstream...JAP_2011_1.pdf (WFS)
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Old 01-26-2012, 08:20 PM   #9
Rob Samuels
 
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Re: Training fasted

Too lazy to go dig stuff up but if you head over to dangerouslyhardcore.com kind of wfs He has all the REAL scientific/medical studies on why training fasted is preferable for Strength training. Note, doing a powerlifting routine with some very short metcon stuff has different requirements than doing a 30 minute metcon or a marathon.
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Old 01-26-2012, 09:03 PM   #10
Adam Castagno
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Re: Training fasted

Been doing it for the past 2+ weeks and feel fine. All I do is take in about 8-12oz h20 and a cup of coffee 30-40 min prior. Training fasted is something I would have NEVER dared to do until I switched to CF and my goals/training etc have all changed.
Prior to training fasted I would on avg eat a banana, 2+tbsp almond/peanut butter and an omelet. wait 1.5-2hr and then train. Even with resting as I did, I still had the "sick" feeling in my gut after a hard metcon... training fasted I do not get this feeling, which allows me to push harder, so I have not felt it has weakened me out or tired me out faster, since most wods have improved with less nast gut like feeling allowing me to push through better. As soon as I am done I get home and pound a smoothie with whey, milk and frozen fruit. Then eat a regular bfast about an hr or so later.
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