CrossFit Discussion Board  

Go Back   CrossFit Discussion Board > CrossFit Forum > Exercises
CrossFit Home Forum Site Rules CrossFit FAQ Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Exercises Movements, technique & proper execution

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 04-03-2006, 01:42 PM   #1
Charlie Reid
Member Charlie Reid is offline
 
Profile:
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: San Diego  CA
Posts: 233
I found an abstract on Pubmed regarding the differences between conventional and sumo deadlifts. The study suggests that conventional deadlifting takes 25-40% more energy expenditure than sumo. I imagine those that are taller would want to do sumo, although i've noticed that sumo style (for me) is harder to get the bar of the ground despite the fact that the bar has to travel less distance than conventional.


Med Sci Sports Exerc. 2000 Jul;32(7):1265-75.
Related Articles, Links


A three-dimensional biomechanical analysis of sumo and conventional style deadlifts.

Escamilla RF, Francisco AC, Fleisig GS, Barrentine SW, Welch CM, Kayes AV, Speer KP, Andrews JR.

Division of Orthopaedic Surgery, Duke University Medical Center, Durham, NC 27710, USA. rescamil@duke.edu

PURPOSE: Strength athletes often employ the deadlift in their training or rehabilitation regimens. The purpose of this study was to quantify kinematic and kinetic parameters by employing a three-dimensional analysis during sumo and conventional style deadlifts. METHODS: Two 60-Hz video cameras recorded 12 sumo and 12 conventional style lifters during a national powerlifting championship. Parameters were quantified at barbell liftoff (LO), at the instant the barbell passed the knees (KP), and at lift completion. Unpaired t-tests (P < 0.05) were used to compare all parameters. RESULTS: At LO and KP, thigh position was 11-16 degrees more horizontal for the sumo group, whereas the knees and hips extended approximately 12 degrees more for the conventional group. The sumo group had 5-10 degrees greater vertical trunk and thigh positions, employed a wider stance (70 +/- 11 cm vs 32 +/- 8 cm), turned their feet out more (42 +/- 8 vs 14 +/- 6 degrees). and gripped the bar with their hands closer together (47 +/- 4 cm vs 55 +/- 10 cm). Vertical bar distance, mechanical work, and predicted energy expenditure were approximately 25-40% greater in the conventional group. Hip extensor, knee extensor, and ankle dorsiflexor moments were generated for the sumo group, whereas hip extensor, knee extensor, knee flexor, and ankle plantar flexor moments were generated for the conventional group. Ankle and knee moments and moment arms were significantly different between the sumo and conventional groups, whereas hip moments and moments arms did not show any significantly differences. Three-dimensional calculations were more accurate and significantly different than two-dimensional calculations, especially for the sumo deadlift. CONCLUSIONS: Biomechanical differences between sumo and conventional deadlifts result from technique variations between these exercises. Understanding these differences will aid the strength coach or rehabilitation specialist in determining which deadlift style an athlete or patient should employ.
}
  Reply With Quote
Old 04-03-2006, 04:00 PM   #2
John Seiler
Affiliate John Seiler is offline
 
John Seiler's Avatar
 
Profile:
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: St. Louis  MO
Posts: 1,687
Interesting Charlie. Obviously, the big difference for our purposes is the involvement of the knee flexor (hamstring & gastroc) in the conventional style; that old posterior chain. Odd that nothing about the hip/back extensors is mentioned.

IMO, Crossfitters should use the conventional deadlift as the default deadlift. The idea is to engage the posterior chain. The fact that more mechanical work and energy expenditure are required is a bonus for us. A powerlifter in competition cares only about how much they can lift. For many that translates to the Sumo style due in part to the aforementioned factors.
  Reply With Quote
Old 04-03-2006, 04:20 PM   #3
Charlie Reid
Member Charlie Reid is offline
 
Profile:
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: San Diego  CA
Posts: 233
I think that's a good point, for a better metabolic slam, the conventional style seems to be the best bang for the buck. However for one seeking the most possible poundage lifted, one with certain lever lengths might want to consider the sumo instead. I used to be stronger in the sumo until i started O-lifting, then the tables turned and i became weaker in the sumo because i couldn't squeeze the weight off the floor.
  Reply With Quote
Old 04-03-2006, 06:53 PM   #4
Mark Garcia
Member Mark Garcia is offline
 
Profile:
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: paranaque  metro manila
Posts: 155
I agree that the conventional deadlift shuld be used as the default deadlift... However, for guys who have been training over a period of time, they will the realize whether they are more suited for conventional or sumo deads
  Reply With Quote
Old 04-04-2006, 07:15 AM   #5
Dave Rounsevelle
Departed Dave Rounsevelle is offline
 
Profile:
Join Date: Jan 1970
 
Posts: 92
I agree that X-fitter should use the conventional as deadlift of choice for X-fit workouts. For metabolic slam and for "real world" application.
But..
Being a former powerlifter I was "stuck" at 585, for about a year. I tried sumu and within a year I did manage to get the 600 and even a 615, but it took nearly a year to get there. But, I have a long torso and shorter legs for my height. So the sumu is suited for builds like me.The biggest divend was that my squat went from 585 to 650 in that same year. My back was much less sore and I was able to push it harder in the squats-I think that what happened.:biggrin:
Most powerlifting books recommend styles -ie wide squat vs narrow squat for certain body types. For the average X-fitter, I don't think they need to take it that far, but maybe they might be interested?? Food for thought.
  Reply With Quote
Old 04-04-2006, 07:58 AM   #6
Matthew Nielsen
Member Matthew Nielsen is offline
 
Matthew Nielsen's Avatar
 
Profile:
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Herndon  VA
Posts: 602
I have long arms and legs and a short torso, I like the conventional deadlift.

I can pull 500lbs without really training that lift.

It's weird though, I can only squat 365lbs for a few reps at my best.
  Reply With Quote
Old 04-04-2006, 08:49 AM   #7
Dave Rounsevelle
Departed Dave Rounsevelle is offline
 
Profile:
Join Date: Jan 1970
 
Posts: 92
Not to hijack but.

Matt, most powerlifting is done with a suit and knee wraps ( for competions that is) If you learned how to use the advantages of a suit, wraps and technique (bar down on the traps/back) I'm pretty sure your squat would come close to equalling your deads.
Thats some solid power with a 500 lb dead w/o much training. And the convention method is biomechanically correct for your body type.
  Reply With Quote
Old 04-04-2006, 09:16 AM   #8
Matthew Nielsen
Member Matthew Nielsen is offline
 
Matthew Nielsen's Avatar
 
Profile:
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Herndon  VA
Posts: 602
I shouldn't have said training that lift. More like keeping up with that lift. There was a point about 5 years ago where I was deadlifting every 4 days.

I just don't keep up with it anymore.
  Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Deadlift - sumo vs regular Mike ODonnell Exercises 7 09-11-2006 08:32 PM
Sumo deadlift high pulls Brian Omohundro Exercises 1 05-19-2006 10:18 AM
Sumo deadlift high pull Frank Menendez Digital Coaching 5 01-18-2006 05:34 PM
Deadlift High Pull versus Sumo deadlift highpull Andy Hilven Workout of the Day 5 12-02-2004 10:46 AM
What is a Sumo deadlift/High-pull? Scott Parker Exercises 3 01-06-2003 02:56 PM


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 07:21 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.8
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
CrossFit is a registered trademark of CrossFit Inc.