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Old 08-18-2008, 06:28 PM   #1
Joseph Cormier
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Crossfit + Westside

Hi all,

I am currently doing a westside style of training and dabble from time to time with Crossfit. I love the intensity of the WOD. I was wondering if there is any way of meshing the two programs together?. Would the blackbox program be the equivalent of the two programs?. Any thoughts or suggestions would be a great help.

Thanks
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Old 08-18-2008, 09:53 PM   #2
Gavin Harrison
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Re: Crossfit + Westside

Westside recommends doing 20 minute mini workouts to raise GPP, improve recovery, work special exercises, etc. You could try using crossfit type exercises for these, but it would probably smash your recovery instead of help it. Another alternative would be to use ME and DE to work the big lifts and crossfit for everything else, using some special exercises post workout, ie sled dragging, reverse hypers or glute ham raises.

It all depends on your goals. I'm willing to guess if you tried to incorporate crossfit into westside you'd end up feeling destroyed after a few days. Maybe ME/DE on the first two days of a crossfit 3/1 cycle.
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Old 08-19-2008, 08:00 AM   #3
Charles Bennington
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Re: Crossfit + Westside

I tried it at one point. Mostly ME and DE with Crossfit metcons for GPP. It's the fastest way I could have imagined to burnout/overtrain. The CNS was not pleased with the demands.

I'm sure it could be pieced together by someone with a far greater knowledge of programming. I just kind of jumped in. If you are dead set on trying it I would suggest modifying a Max Effort Black Box to replace some ME with DE. Make sure that diet and recovery are non-issues before attempting.
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Old 08-19-2008, 08:13 AM   #4
Veronica Davis
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Re: Crossfit + Westside

Hey Joseph...


I'm currently doing westside-style training and I attempt to mix in crossfit metcons.

Monday - ME Squat/DL (periodization) and sprints
Tuesday - AM: ME Bench (periodization).... PM: Jiu Jitsu
Wednesday - Metcon <30 min or Rest... I listen to my body
Thursday - AM: DE Squat/DL and sprints... PM: Muay Thai
Friday - DE Bench... going to add a quick metcon
Saturday - Metcon @50% or off
Sunday - Rest


I'm also going to start mixing in oly lifts to my DE days. So far this has been working well for me. My CNS does not feel taxed especially since I deload every 5 weeks or so, I get good sleep and my nutrition is pretty solid. Will my program work for everyone who wants to combine the two?.. probably not. But I've learned to be in tune with how I'm feeling.

IMO... depending on how your days are laid out you could do a metcon right after your workout or do as Gavin suggested with 3/1. Regardless of how you lay out the program, I believe in trying it to see how you feel. What may burn one person out may not burn out another. Also for ideas you can look at people who do SS with metcons.
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Old 08-19-2008, 08:14 AM   #5
Zac Jereb
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Re: Crossfit + Westside

I would advise metcons following the DE lifts on DE days (and perhaps only then), and I would advise spreading the traditional 7-day template out over a longer period of time (10 days-ish).
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Old 08-19-2008, 08:15 AM   #6
Zac Jereb
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Re: Crossfit + Westside

Also, consider supplementing with l-tyrosine to combat CNS fatigue...
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Old 08-19-2008, 04:17 PM   #7
Joseph Cormier
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Re: Crossfit + Westside

Thanks for the ideas everyone. I think I'll start with the 3/1 program that Gavin suggested. I have to get in alot better shape to do the type of progam you have going Veronica. My diet is good, sleep is a little hit and miss with work and kids but still not bad so hopefully I can stay away from the overtraining situation.

cheers guys.
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Old 08-19-2008, 06:08 PM   #8
Veronica Davis
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Re: Crossfit + Westside

Joseph... I typically do a 3/1, but since it's the summer I try to avoid training on Sundays, so what you see above is what I am doing as we speak. I'm on the road too much in the summer and I hate having to worry about whether I'll be able to get my workout in. I'll switch back to 3/1 after labor day. It worked well.

Day 1 - ME Squat/DL
Day 2 - ME Bench
Day 3 - Metcon
Day 4 -Rest
Day 5 - DE Squat/DL
Day 6 - DE Bench
Day 7 - Metcon
Day 8 - Rest
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Old 08-19-2008, 07:00 PM   #9
Gavin Harrison
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Re: Crossfit + Westside

Veronica, I'm not sure if this is the case, but isn't DE supposed to be more taxing on the CNS? Should you split it such that 1 ME and 1 DE is done per cycle?

Also, if working out like this, I'd keep close tabs on your CNS. Try the dot/tap test every morning or shortly before working out (bottom of this article (wfs, aside from scantily clad women... t-nation)), or exercise good judgement. If you're feeling fried drop the lifting, or the metcon or both, or take an extra day off between cycles, figure out what works and what doesn't. Tell us how it goes, if you stick with it or drop it, progress, etc.

Thanks.
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Old 08-19-2008, 07:44 PM   #10
Tim Luby
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Re: Crossfit + Westside

I actually had some pretty significant strength gains using a modified Westside. This was done in concert with my usual crossfit shenanagins (at the time, metcons and lots of sandbag carries, etc).

This is my personalized approach to Westside (my apologies Louie)

All done in one workout:

4 DE sets
2 reps each, increasing weight after each set, but not so much that you slow down) These are fast-moving reps. Start with 50-55% of your 1RM and don't exceed 65%

3 ME sets
1-2 reps each. These are tough sets. If you're doing a double, the second one should be really hard to push [or pull] through to lockout. A good scheme is 2 doubles and 1 max attempt. The key with this is to listen to your body. 3 singles would be great if you could hack it.

The real kicker of my protocol is that I do DE & ME in one sitting. I just find it to be a more time-efficient method. I'm not a powerlifter and I think that a DE day leans too much toward specializing in powerlifting. An added benefit is that you're using your DE sets to work up to ME efforts. Physically this is good because that's a kick-*** warm-up! The body is primed to be explosive. Mentally, this can be beneficial because you've just pushed some weight very fast and powerfully and that "spirit" can carry over to the ME sets

A couple of notes

- Box squats all the way. This protocol really doesn't work so well otherwise. One of the points of box squatting (in the context of Westside) is to avoid burnout. The weight you'll use [as well as volume] will be lower than with standard squats [or other programs], which will make recovery much better. You'll also kick the **** out of your posterior chain and increase your deadlift.
- Use chains or bands (even on cleans, the effect there is especially pronounced)
- Don't be afraid to take this protocol away from the barbell. Do it with dips and pull-ups as well
- Twice per week was enough for me to increase strength. Example: day one: squats, DL, SP, Day two: Squats, bench, clean
- Don't worry about assistance work. Spend that time doing metcons and other fun stuff
- Change stuff up. Sub in front squats, sumo DLs (or rack pulls), hang power cleans, etc. every 2-3 weeks

Hope this helps!

Last edited by Tim Luby : 08-19-2008 at 07:51 PM.
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