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Old 02-06-2015, 08:23 AM   #1
Hakan Yilmazkaya
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5/3/1 and Front Squats

Guys i've been doing 531 Boring But Big for a year and i'm very happy with my progress. The problem is i am using a Rippetoe style low bar back squat and i don't feel like it's contributing to my oly lifts or simply to my front squat. I can lift 350 lb back squat and i'm not sure i can even lift 250 lb front squat. That's why i want to corporate front squat into my program and i need your help with that. Here's my program;

Monday: 531 Press + 5x10 Bench Press + Assistance (pullups, dips etc.)
Tuesday: Snatches + 531 Squat + 5x10 Deadlifts + Metcon + abs
Wednesday: Off
Thursday: 531 Bench Press + 5x10 Push Press + Assistance (chinups, lr etc.)
Friday: Cleans + 531 Deadlift + Metcon + abs

I have 2 options in my mind;

1- Totally replacing Back Squat with Front Squat which i don't want to do.
2- Doing Front Squat on Deadlift day after deadlifting. Maybe i can use them as an assistance lift, do 3x5 or 5x5 Front Squats with %75-80 or even use 531 scheme. My concern is i'm not sure how deadlift will effect my front squat performance.

I would be so glad to hear your opinions on this to decide which one to choose or make another options, thanks.
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Old 02-06-2015, 08:45 AM   #2
Bob Butz
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Re: 5/3/1 and Front Squats

Sounds like you already know what you should do. If you don't believe the low-bar back squat is helping you reach your front squat goals, it does seem rather silly to keep hammering away at it.
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Old 02-06-2015, 11:05 AM   #3
Hakan Yilmazkaya
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Re: 5/3/1 and Front Squats

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Originally Posted by Bob Butz View Post
Sounds like you already know what you should do. If you don't believe the low-bar back squat is helping you reach your front squat goals, it does seem rather silly to keep hammering away at it.

But how ?
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Old 02-06-2015, 11:47 AM   #4
Keith Miller
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Re: 5/3/1 and Front Squats

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Originally Posted by Hakan Yilmazkaya View Post
But how ?
Change to a high-bar back squat!!

Seriously, several high quality Olympic weightlifting coaches, in this country and elsewhere, KNOW that low-bar back squats will NOT do anything for the lifts, that's why you only see them in PL.
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Old 02-06-2015, 12:55 PM   #5
Hakan Yilmazkaya
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Re: 5/3/1 and Front Squats

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Originally Posted by Keith Miller View Post
Change to a high-bar back squat!!

Seriously, several high quality Olympic weightlifting coaches, in this country and elsewhere, KNOW that low-bar back squats will NOT do anything for the lifts, that's why you only see them in PL.
Yes i agree. But i am so used to LBBS that i just can't do HBBS. It is way easier for me to just adding some front squat work than changing my squat. Now i'm thinking about keeping my LBBS but adding front squat as an assistance to my deadlift day on a 531 template. Do you think doing 531 front squat after 531 deadlift would be a nice solution ? Or just 3x5 with %80 ? My goal is just getting stronger with my front squat so i dont care about volume, i dont want to exceed 5 reps a set.
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Old 02-06-2015, 10:53 PM   #6
Robert Fabsik
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Re: 5/3/1 and Front Squats

First there is no reason why you can't learn how to HBBS.

But, if you love the LBBS, just do front squats after your 5/3/1 deadlift. Do them in the Boring But Big model for a while. Then you can start doing heavy 5's and eventually 3s.
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Old 02-07-2015, 06:03 AM   #7
Hakan Yilmazkaya
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Re: 5/3/1 and Front Squats

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Originally Posted by Robert Fabsik View Post
First there is no reason why you can't learn how to HBBS.

But, if you love the LBBS, just do front squats after your 5/3/1 deadlift. Do them in the Boring But Big model for a while. Then you can start doing heavy 5's and eventually 3s.
And do you think HBBS + FS or LBBS + FS would be more beneficial for a crossfit athlete ?
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Old 02-07-2015, 11:34 AM   #8
Keith Miller
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Re: 5/3/1 and Front Squats

First, as was said, there is no reason you can't switch. You might have to deload the weight quite a bit until you build back up, and it will take a little while, but you just do it.

LBBS is only good for powerlifting, and even the best powerlifters will use HBBS and only low bar as they're preparing for a meet. Some of the raw lifters are even switching to a HBBS or even a Mid-bar back squat (not as far down the back as LBBS).
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Old 02-07-2015, 12:20 PM   #9
Robert Fabsik
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Re: 5/3/1 and Front Squats

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Originally Posted by Hakan Yilmazkaya View Post
And do you think HBBS + FS or LBBS + FS would be more beneficial for a crossfit athlete ?
Generally yes since CrossFit uses lots of Olympic lifting variations. But in the long run it doesn't mean you can't or shouldn't use both.

LBBS will get you comfortable with heavier loads.
HBBS will give better Olympic carry over.

But based on your strengths/weaknesses and goals, you might use them to fit the bill.

Wanting to work on improving you Oly lifts? HBBS
Struggling to get good glute activation and posterior chain development? Try the LBBS

HBBS is stalling out for a while, mix it up to the LBBS then come back.

For general fitness, just find a squat that works for you.
Then get picky if you have a sport goal (weightlifiting vs. powerlifting vs. CF).
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Old 02-08-2015, 11:23 AM   #10
Hakan Yilmazkaya
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Re: 5/3/1 and Front Squats

Quote:
Originally Posted by Keith Miller View Post
First, as was said, there is no reason you can't switch. You might have to deload the weight quite a bit until you build back up, and it will take a little while, but you just do it.

LBBS is only good for powerlifting, and even the best powerlifters will use HBBS and only low bar as they're preparing for a meet. Some of the raw lifters are even switching to a HBBS or even a Mid-bar back squat (not as far down the back as LBBS).
Quote:
Originally Posted by Robert Fabsik View Post
Generally yes since CrossFit uses lots of Olympic lifting variations. But in the long run it doesn't mean you can't or shouldn't use both.

LBBS will get you comfortable with heavier loads.
HBBS will give better Olympic carry over.

But based on your strengths/weaknesses and goals, you might use them to fit the bill.

Wanting to work on improving you Oly lifts? HBBS
Struggling to get good glute activation and posterior chain development? Try the LBBS

HBBS is stalling out for a while, mix it up to the LBBS then come back.

For general fitness, just find a squat that works for you.
Then get picky if you have a sport goal (weightlifiting vs. powerlifting vs. CF).
Thanks guys. Yesterday i tried a HBBS and i think i can handle it. I dropped my training max by 10 lbs and i could handle 2 reps with %95 of TM, i could have done 1 more rep but i felt a slight pain on my lower back, i think it was due to a muscle spasm related with too much loading in a posture that i'm not so used to, now i'm totally ok and i believe i can go on with HBBS. I don't care too much about how much i can lift as long as the load is not functional for me.

On Squat day, i will go with HBBS and on my Deadlift day just after 531 Deadlift, i will do my Front Squats in advanced 531 scheme (w1: 5x5, w2: 5x3, w3: 5x1). Thanks for your help.
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