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Old 10-27-2009, 10:14 AM   #21
John Welbourn
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Re: Hypertrophy with CFFB

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Originally Posted by Ian Strand View Post
I'll ask this on the CFFB site as well... I apologize if this has been discussed before, but I haven't found any answers specific to my questions.

I am your typical 'hard gainer', but I now realize that this has been a result of never committing to taking in enough calories.

Quick background:

1) Bodybuilding without a clue for years.
2) Started crossfitting maybe 2 years ago. Commitment has never been an issue, but I fight forest fires every summer which doesn't allow any time for working out for about a 3 month period.
3) Recently I have been following the CFFB site, as I enjoy the increased emphasis on strength gains.

Age: 29
Height: 6'1"
Weight: 180lbs, about 6-7% bodyfat.

Question: Along with increasing my calories (I am starting with 1/2 GOMAD, and I'll work up from there, otherwise I eat close to paleo), would increasing the reps involved with the CFFB strength workout be a bit more effective for hypertrophy? I was thinking for days where sets of 1 are prescribed, I would raise this to 5 (and probably reduce the number of sets), and where sets of 5 are prescribed, I would increase this to 10, and change everything in between accordingly.

I was also thinking of adding in a *small* amount of additional lifts (read: isolation. yes, isolation.) after the WODs in order to increase volume.

Thoughts? Suggestions? I would like to get up to 190lbs with the same BF% this winter. I know that my ideas are probably springing from the bodybuilding past in me... but is that such a bad thing?
I think if you wanted to add isolation movements into the CF Football Strength WOD that would meet your goals. Hypertrophy is achieved in that 8-15 rep range with timed reps. Figure no more than 3 aux movements per body part. Time reps will meet your goals - A time rep of 4 count down, 2 count pause and 2 count up is great for training those hypertrophy fibers. I would aux movements to the strength days and see how you do. I would be aware to keep the metcons short and NEVER avoid the sprint days. Ever seen how a world class sprinter looks? Those guys lift heavy weights and sprint their asses off and are shredded. All this training stuff is great but if you are not meeting your caloric needs you are wasting your time. You need a minimum of 1 gram of protein per lb of body weight...more like 1.5-2 grams. Make sure you dial your post workout nutrition, 15-45 mins. All of my friends that are competitive body builders preach that real foods make for much better gains then supplements so stay to the real foods. Remember to gain weight you need to shoot for 20 cal per lb of body weight. If you can get your calories needs and protein needs and free eat your fruits and veggies and the fats you should be dialed. Vince Grionda (body builder from the 50's) used to make his guys eat the "Stone Age Diet" with large amounts of raw milk. Look at those guys from the 60's and 70's and they are jacked for more than a few reasons...they were not afraid to over-train and eat like it was their job. Arnold and Franco would put in 2-3 sessions a day for 2-3 hours a session. Sometimes training a single body part 3xday. You add the type of regiment with the right food and the you can make some gains. The people that claim to be hard gainers usually never eat enough.

Good luck your training and glad CF Football can help.

John
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Old 10-27-2009, 08:03 PM   #22
Ian Strand
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Re: Hypertrophy with CFFB

Thanks for the reply John. Also, thanks for CFFB programming. Love it.

As far as adding auxiliary movements in; can you clarify, do you mean add in movements that support what was worked in the strength WOD?

i.e. if the strength WOD involved chinups, are you saying to add in a maximum of 3 different additional back exercises that day?

As far as overtraining... I feel mentally and physically able to add more volume to my workouts. Far from being burnt out. I am learning the recuperative effects of true rest days coupled with increased quality calories.
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Old 10-27-2009, 08:19 PM   #23
Alex McRobie
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Re: Hypertrophy with CFFB

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Originally Posted by John Welbourn View Post
Arnold and Franco would put in 2-3 sessions a day for 2-3 hours a session. Sometimes training a single body part 3xday.
John
yeah but these guys were both on roids, training with volume even close to that for hypertrophy if your not juicing is a VERY bad idea.

but as John said - eat a lot.
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Old 10-28-2009, 07:47 AM   #24
Ian Strand
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Re: Hypertrophy with CFFB

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training with volume even close to that for hypertrophy if your not juicing is a VERY bad idea.
Heh, yeah... I think that goes without saying.
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Old 10-28-2009, 12:37 PM   #25
John Welbourn
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Re: Hypertrophy with CFFB

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Originally Posted by Alex McRobie View Post
yeah but these guys were both on roids, training with volume even close to that for hypertrophy if your not juicing is a VERY bad idea.

but as John said - eat a lot.
That goes it out saying. If you saw what i said "jacked for more then a few reason"...i couldnt agree more. i was talking about the training volumes were insane even for people on drugs. They were pushing it far beyond the realm of normal or even human, but even in those days the amounts they were taking were a fraction of the what the pros or the even the guys at 24 fitness are taking. Those guys ate and trained their asses off. Today it seems it is a race to see who take the most crap.

What is meant by aux exercises. Lets say the strength work is deadlifts and strict pull ups. You could add in heavy barbell bent rows and the db single arm rows. If you were doing bench and presses you could add in 6 sets of db shoulder press from every angle you could figure out on a adjustable bench and arnold presses. If you are looking for volume there are two schools. Do a large number of sets of the same movements or find the same movements in different exercises. You could do a heavy set of 3x5 press and then do 5x10 of preses following it. Or you could seated db presses for those 5x10 sets...understand? Hypertrophy comes from volume and timing the reps.

John
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Old 12-25-2009, 11:57 PM   #26
Drew Cloutier
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Re: Hypertrophy with CFFB

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Originally Posted by Richard Paul Ham-Williams View Post
Hypertrophy can be simple if the right things are done, same with getting stronger.

however, to say that simply eating alot and getting stronger will do it is over simplifying things a little too much.

Especially as a point will come when strength gains halt.

Think of the thousands of people around the world lifting heavy and eating loads - thats a lot of people doing exactly as prescribed here and all you get is alot of strong fat people in gyms.

Bodybuilding (in the sense that you want to build more muscle, not oil up and prance about) is a fine quest if you are trying to build yourself to feel better and perform better. More muscle helps nealry all sports - nearly!

Things to consider are range of motion, skill learning, fatigue, recovery and volume.

High volume of work is not a requirement for hypertrophy, it can be used to reach a goal but high volume is not needed.


[quote=Ian Strand;683415]Hey Richard, can you elaborate on "things to consider"? I liked your defintion of "bodybuilding", but you're right - I want to "build" my body with more mass, but am not looking to become a bodybuilder, "oiled up and prancing around".

Steven Webster, I'd like to put on some size for some job specific reasons - more size will make strength increases come much quicker (and strength goes a long way in my job), and frankly I wouldn't mind walking into some of these structural fire interviews weighing 10-15 pounds more than I do now.

QUOTE]


Actually bodybuilding = dieting, getting onstage, and doing the whole rig-a-marole...what you do is NOT bodybuilding...its called weight training.

bodybuilding = sport, not a way of training, you can't apply it to anything.
That would be like saying Hockey and Ringuette are the same cuz you skate on ice, and have a stick.
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Old 12-29-2009, 06:27 AM   #27
Kurt A Gross
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Re: Hypertrophy with CFFB

What or where is the CFFB site?
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Old 12-29-2009, 07:33 AM   #28
Brian Bedell
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Re: Hypertrophy with CFFB

If you put "cffb" in google, it's the first one.
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Old 12-29-2009, 09:49 AM   #29
Kurt A Gross
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Re: Hypertrophy with CFFB

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If you put "cffb" in google, it's the first one.
doh!
Thanks
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