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Old 03-16-2004, 03:33 PM   #1
wjones
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I would be interested to hear the arguments for/against drinking milk. I've been reading http://www.NotMilk.com and wondered if avoiding milk is a good idea? I'm coming from a position of drinking about 1.5litres a day, mainly in protein shakes and some coffee, so it could be difficult. Have others made the switch, or isn't it worth cutting out completely?
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Old 03-16-2004, 05:14 PM   #2
Patrick Johnston
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I don't think that one wants to overdo milk consumption but I have seen no good data to suggest that dairy products don't have their place in a healthy diet. This is not to say that one can't have an extremely healthy diet without dairy. I would venture to say that most diets would benefit by eliminating many other items before dairy. In addition, the idea of life without dairy products is beyond drab in my opinion.

Regarding that site, at first glance, it appears to be a very thinly veiled animal rights propoganda site.
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Old 03-16-2004, 11:01 PM   #3
Mark Roughton
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For lots of reasons, I limit milk consumption, but I don't have enough knowledge about it to advocate for or against it for anybody else. But here's some "food for thought." I just ran across this article today (via a link on dangerousmeta.com):

http://news.scotsman.com/latest.cfm?id=2657675

You might want to do a search on the growth hormone the article's talking about.
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Old 03-17-2004, 07:34 AM   #4
Patrick Johnston
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The growth hormone to which the article refers is called BST. There has been no sudies that show that cows that are given BST produce milk that is any different from those cows that are not given BST. In fact, it is impossible to tell from the milk itself whether or not a cow has been given BST. This is the reason milk producers can't guarantee that their milk is BST free.

I, for one, think that the use of BST is a mistake as it damages the public's perception about dairy products. In addition, I doubt that it makes much money for the dairy producers. The real winners are Monsanto, the makers of BST.

As to the IGF effects, I have seen nothing on this before. I would be interested to see more information. The information in the article is nothing more than anecdotal in nature.
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Old 03-17-2004, 07:36 AM   #5
Patrick Johnston
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Oh, and comparing dairy products to cigarettes is not only ridiculous but it is an insult to those who have seen the damage that cigareetes cause. It also does nothing to add to the credibility of the author.
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Old 03-17-2004, 08:41 AM   #6
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I agree with you on both points, Patrick. The milk-to-cigarettes comparison does seem over the top, but to be fair to the author, the "as deadly" phrase only appears in the headline; the author seems more focused on the breast and prostate cancer links.

Jim Hightower had an article over on Alternet yesterday about Monsanto and milk producers: http://www.alternet.org/story.html?StoryID=18138

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Old 03-17-2004, 09:35 AM   #7
Patrick Johnston
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I'm no Monsanto fan, that is for sure. However, keep in mind that there is no way to prove if milk comes from BST treated cows or not. Put another way, there is no scientific way to detect BST, any derivative of it, or any difference in the milk.

You may recall that Starbucks used to advertise that their milk came from BST cows. However, what was eventually determined was that some producers were in fact using BST. There was no way to tell who was following the guidlines and who wasn't therefore they just scrapped the campaign.

I guess my point is is that there has been no proof that BST changes the milk in any way. Therefore, we should not jump to conclusions that it is bad for the consumer. It is, on the other hand, bad for the people that Monsanto CLAIMS to be helping...the dairy producers! This is because the use of BST raises the farmer's costs, has negligible "all-in" benefits to the farmer (don't get me started on this), and the use of BST has had a negative affect on the public perception of milk. This has only hurt consumption in my opinion. In summation, the only group that I can see that has been helped by the introducion and use of BST is, you guessed it, Monsanto (and their shareholders).
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Old 03-17-2004, 10:09 AM   #8
Robert Wolf
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I think dairy, like all neolithic foods, can be problematic for certian individuals. If you have a history of autoimmunity in your family for example I would certianly limit its consumption.
Robb
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Old 03-17-2004, 05:48 PM   #9
Josh Wade
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I personaly am allergic to the casien and my asthma is brought on by dairy. From what I have read it seems that there are certain factors that make it far from the optimum calcium food. I can't remember exactly what I read so I'll leave it up to Rob maybe to verify/falsify this.

Also since this is my first post I want to say hello and thank everyone who posts on this site.
I have been lurking for a while and have found the answer to everything I have wanted to know so far.

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Old 03-17-2004, 09:26 PM   #10
Robert Wolf
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Josh-

Welcome! You are correct about the calcium. the net acid load of dairy nearly negates the amount of calcium on obtains.
Robb
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