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Old 06-14-2010, 11:30 AM   #141
Katherine Derbyshire
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Re: Vegan Paleo

Fat and carbs are metabolized differently. Generally speaking, carbs are available more quickly, an important consideration for many athletes. Personally, I do not do well on the very low-carb diets often recommended here.

For non-diabetics, the insulin impact of grains, or carbs generally, is IMO often vastly exaggerated. Particularly if the carbs are coming from a whole grain source, as opposed to Twinkies and sugary beverages.

Similarly, the broad brush claim that "all" grains are pro-inflammatory for "all" people and should be avoided is contradicted by the vast populations who do quite well on grain-rich diets. The fact that celiac disease exists is not an argument for the elimination of brown rice.

As far as the use of corn for sugar, no one in this thread is recommending the consumption of HFCS, so I'm not sure why it's relevant.

Katherine
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Old 06-14-2010, 11:39 AM   #142
Jeffrey White
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Re: Vegan Paleo

Quote:
Originally Posted by Katherine Derbyshire View Post
Fat and carbs are metabolized differently. Generally speaking, carbs are available more quickly, an important consideration for many athletes. Personally, I do not do well on the very low-carb diets often recommended here.

For non-diabetics, the insulin impact of grains, or carbs generally, is IMO often vastly exaggerated. Particularly if the carbs are coming from a whole grain source, as opposed to Twinkies and sugary beverages.

Similarly, the broad brush claim that "all" grains are pro-inflammatory for "all" people and should be avoided is contradicted by the vast populations who do quite well on grain-rich diets. The fact that celiac disease exists is not an argument for the elimination of brown rice.

As far as the use of corn for sugar, no one in this thread is recommending the consumption of HFCS, so I'm not sure why it's relevant.

Katherine
Coconut fat is MCT's and are available as quickly as most carbs.

There are no cultures that do well on "grain-based" diets. You are welcomed to post a link that proves otherwise. But I haven't found one.

And your comments on insulin really are surprising and strike as someone who has never read anything whatsoever about insulin.

BTW, the reason you "don't do well" on low-carb is because you are addicted to carbs from elevated seratonin levels in your brain. It's withdrawl, same stuff you'd go through with abstaining from caffeine.
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Old 06-14-2010, 11:46 AM   #143
Katherine Derbyshire
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Re: Vegan Paleo

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Coconut fat is MCT's and are available as quickly as most carbs.

There are no cultures that do well on "grain-based" diets. You are welcomed to post a link that proves otherwise. But I haven't found one.

And your comments on insulin really are surprising and strike as someone who has never read anything whatsoever about insulin.

BTW, the reason you "don't do well" on low-carb is because you are addicted to carbs from elevated seratonin levels in your brain. It's withdrawl, same stuff you'd go through with abstaining from caffeine.
Rice is a staple of the Okinawan and Japanese cultures, among the longest lived in the world. Corn is a staple of the extremely long-lived Abkhazi culture. Wheat is very important in the Mediterranean diet.

I've actually read a fair amount about insulin, and have several diabetic friends. That's why I'm surprised by the degree to which it is demonized around here.

I'm amazed by your ability to conclude that I am addicted to carbs based on a single comment about my personal experience, without any additional information about my training or what diets I have and have not tried.

Katherine
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Old 06-14-2010, 11:54 AM   #144
Jeffrey White
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Re: Vegan Paleo

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Originally Posted by Katherine Derbyshire View Post
Rice is a staple of the Okinawan and Japanese cultures, among the longest lived in the world. Corn is a staple of the extremely long-lived Abkhazi culture. Wheat is very important in the Mediterranean diet.

I've actually read a fair amount about insulin, and have several diabetic friends. That's why I'm surprised by the degree to which it is demonized around here.

I'm amazed by your ability to conclude that I am addicted to carbs based on a single comment about my personal experience, without any additional information about my training or what diets I have and have not tried.

Katherine
There is this thing called science. In particular, biochemistry. It explains why people feel bad AT FIRST on low-carb diets. I don't have to know you.

BTW, a "staple" is NOT a "grain-based" diet. If you dig deeper, you'll find that those cultures don't eat as much rice and wheat as you believe. Their benefits are usually associated with other parts...sea and other fresh vegetables, lean proteins, healthy fats, red wine, etc...
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Old 06-14-2010, 12:05 PM   #145
Katherine Derbyshire
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Re: Vegan Paleo

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Originally Posted by Jeffrey White View Post
There is this thing called science. In particular, biochemistry. It explains why people feel bad AT FIRST on low-carb diets. I don't have to know you.

BTW, a "staple" is NOT a "grain-based" diet. If you dig deeper, you'll find that those cultures don't eat as much rice and wheat as you believe. Their benefits are usually associated with other parts...sea and other fresh vegetables, lean proteins, healthy fats, red wine, etc...
Again, I'm amazed by your ability to draw conclusions about my experience with low-carb diets. While there are biochemical reasons why one might "feel bad at first," I have given you no information about what carb levels I have tried, for how long, or why I was dissatisfied. Nor have I given you any information from which you might assess my caloric or macronutrient requirements.

I'll concede the point about "grain-based" diets. My underlying point still stands: plenty of healthy people eat plenty of grains. (And since we're arguing terminology, my post actually referred to "grain-rich" diets. You introduced the term "grain-based.") There is no evidence that they are universally bad.

Katherine

Last edited by Katherine Derbyshire : 06-14-2010 at 12:09 PM.
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Old 06-14-2010, 12:28 PM   #146
Renee Lee
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Re: Vegan Paleo

can somebody pass the popcorn?
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"catapultam habeo. nisi pecuniam dabis, ad capitem tuum saxum mittam."
Translation: I have a catapult. Give me your money or i'll throw a rock at your head.

Last edited by Renee Lee : 06-14-2010 at 12:29 PM. Reason: Side Note: i've got odds on Katherine
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Old 06-14-2010, 04:31 PM   #147
Robert Newman
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Re: Vegan Paleo

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Originally Posted by Jeffrey White View Post
BTW, the reason you "don't do well" on low-carb is because you are addicted to carbs from elevated seratonin levels in your brain. It's withdrawl, same stuff you'd go through with abstaining from caffeine.
The reason you don't do well is because carbs are the easiest of the macro nutrients to convert to glucose, and they are our bodies primary source of energy and micro nutrition. You can't say something general like carbs when making that statement. What carbs? Table sugar and HFC are addicted, of course. Bananas? Not the same.

On the other side, you go through major withdraw symptoms when you stop eating meat from uric acid withdraw. That is like caffeine withdraw.

"BTW, a "staple" is NOT a "grain-based" diet. If you dig deeper, you'll find that those cultures don't eat as much rice and wheat as you believe. Their benefits are usually associated with other parts...sea and other fresh vegetables, lean proteins, healthy fats, red wine, etc..."

Are you kidding? Rice is staple in Japan and China to say the least. Rice is heavily subsidized by both governments, dirt cheap and heavily consumed. Meat and fish are much more expensive. Their diets known for being very low in fat as well.

About the Eskimos, I was referring to the article about the Inuits I posted earlier (not the same name, whatever :/) and their shorter life span than the average Canadian. Other problems with diets predominately made of meat include gout and scurvy.
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Old 06-14-2010, 04:39 PM   #148
Jamie J. Skibicki
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Re: Vegan Paleo

Robert,

That article had no mention of their diet at all and it briefly touched on the causes of death. With no more information, no conclusions can be drawn as a comparison between a traditional inuit diet and life expectancy.
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Old 06-15-2010, 07:53 AM   #149
Darryl Shaw
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Re: Vegan Paleo

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To paraphrase Brooks Kubic from Dinsosaur Training "look at what all the successful people do and then do what they all have in common".
Something all of the worlds healthy long lived societies have in common; they all eat largely plant based diets that include grains.
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Old 06-15-2010, 07:59 AM   #150
Jamie J. Skibicki
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Re: Vegan Paleo

SO are we talking diets for longer life or diet for better performance?
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