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Old 11-03-2004, 09:49 AM   #1
Chris Williams
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I'm a MT guy keen to learn some "floor work", but there aren't many clubs near me that do that sort of thing. I've got the choice of: traditional wrestling, sambo, and krav maga (tho i think that is a mix of styles). Obviously I'll check out the gyms to see how good they are, but anyone here have a view on which one would best compliment MT? I'm particularly curious about Sambo, knowing v. little about it.
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Old 11-03-2004, 11:25 AM   #2
Keith Wittenstein
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Sambo & Krav Maga are good but if you can only train one of those three, I would choose wrestling for several reasons:

It's more popular/well-known and therefore you will likely have more and better training partners. And you can travel just about anywhere and still train.

Also you will find more resources (books, vids, articles) to supplement your training.

No you won't learn submissions, but you will learn to control your opponents which is as important.

You will learn good takedown skills.

Finally, if you eventually want to make the switch to another grappling art, the wrestling foundation will help. I doubt that you will be as well prepared if you tried to transition to wrestling after krav maga or sambo.

That's my $0.02
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Old 11-03-2004, 11:43 AM   #3
Larry Lindenman
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Well put Keith, I would add check out all three and really evaluste the instructor. The instructor could make it or break it. A well taught Sambo class would make an excellent addition to your skills.
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Old 11-03-2004, 11:47 AM   #4
Jeremy Jones
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My best advice would be to try both and see which one you like better.

That being said, I teach shootfighting which has a lot of sambo in it so I am kind of partial to that.

If you are looking for a submission art you should go with the sambo. I have worked with a lot of 'converted' wrestlers. They usually are in great shape (if they were doing it recently), but have habits that are not good for submission fighting. Many of these habits can be hard to break, although it depends on how long they were wrestling (the longer they have, the harder the habits are to break).

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Old 11-03-2004, 10:30 PM   #5
Eugene R. Allen
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Krav Maga is a very brutal fighting art from Isreal. It is no nonsense, hard hitting, kill the guy and move on kind of art. This is not what you are looking for. The regular wrestling would work but as Jeremy suggested Sambo will probably serve you better because of the submission aspect.

In the end it comes down to the instructors and how well they teach their art. You will have more direct carry over to what you want with Sambo than with either wrestling or Krav Maga. Finding a good Brazilian Jiu Jitsu instructor would be your best bet but that wasn't on the menu.

eug
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Old 11-04-2004, 02:06 AM   #6
Chris Williams
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OK thanks a lot guys, i'll check out the instructors & gyms, and then make a decision.

From what I've read here it sounds as if Sambo could be more the sort of thing I'm looking for to add to MT. Wrestling could be a good option also, but here in Europe it is not as widespread as in the US, so the ease of training issues that you mention Keith are not a big positive here. I'll look into Krav, but it sounds more like pure self defence, so it would be more the sort of thing i'd just do a few courses in rather train regularly.

Eug, you mention BJJ, and that was my first thought also. I think that there is a traditional JJ school I could get to, but not a BJJ - does that make a big difference?

Thanks again

Chris
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Old 11-04-2004, 10:42 AM   #7
George Koupatadze
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Chris,
I did Krav for some time and I left it for a combo of MT and BJJ. A lot of the Krav techniques such as punches, kicks, elbows, and knees are borrowed from boxing and MT. It also includes a lot of conditioning drills. So, if you are already training in MT, your stand-up fighting and conditioning are covered and you don't really need to train additionally in Krav. I would definitely add Sambo(I am from Russia and am proud of that style because it's definitely sport and combat proven). If it's combat Sambo, it will also teach you stand-up fighting and knife and gun disarms. I would also definitely vote for BJJ but that's not on the list. You'll be a complete fighter if you combine MT and submissions either from Sambo or BJJ. Good luck!
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Old 11-04-2004, 01:36 PM   #8
Keith Wittenstein
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Yes, Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu and Traditional jiu-jitsu are not interchangeable. If you want good groundfighting and submission skills and a good compliment to your muay thai, then stick with BJJ if you can find it.

In my experience of 7 years of BJJ I find wrestlers have better overall grappling skills (takedowns, standup control, control on the mat and keen body/kinesthetic awareness) when compared to sambo, judo and even a lot of average bjj guys - obviously, there are limitations and differences based on personal skills and attributes. I am not considering switching from BJJ to wrestling. However, I have found that my respect for wrestlers has increased enormously over the years. Sure when wrestlers have never done submissions, they get caught pretty easily. However, the smart ones adapt quickly and learn to avoid the common mistakes. Also wrestlers fight HARD. I always approached jiu-jitsu as a very calm and technical game and shunned (and even mocked) the brutality of wrestlers. Now I have a new appreciation for them and have tried to become a more aggressive yet still technical fighter.

I train at a very progressive BJJ academy and we are not afraid to adapt and assimilate to whatever styles and techniques come our way. So we do a lot of leg locks and sambo-esque techniques. We train with great wrestlers too. We try to incorporate and learn. In my experience though, I have never been impressed with Sambo because they don't seem to have a style that focuses on positional domination. As a Thai boxer you understand the benefit of clinching and holding a person's head while you try to throw knees at them. That element of control: holding while you strike is just as important on the ground whether you are striking or looking for submissions. Wrestlers and BJJ guys understand that and practice that. Maybe I'm naive but I don't think sambo guys and krav maga guys do that.

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Old 11-04-2004, 02:35 PM   #9
George Koupatadze
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Keith,
You're probably right 'cause you have more experience and grappled with all kinds of wrestlers. I advised Sambo to Chris'cause of its submissions. Obviously BJJ has more submissions and positional domination but it was absent from his list. Also, I may be wrong, when Sambo split into Sport and Combat, it lost some submissions, and obviously the combat stuff- knife and gun disarms, striking, etc. And, if we look into the NHB scene, some fighters(Fedor Emelianenko, Oleg Taktarov (ex-fighter), and other Russians) seem do be doing all right training in just sambo and not BJJ. So, I was thinking that Sambo with its submissions would compiment his stand-up training in MT.
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Old 11-05-2004, 08:55 AM   #10
Frank Cruzata
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It would be a toss up between Sambo & wrestling. The deciding factor would be the instructor. I would personally opt for wrestling because as mentioned before there will be more people to train with. However that would also be a good thing about Sambo not enough trainees in it. This forces you to train with someone who isn't familiar and this is always a better situation IMO.

Go check out the schools and see which you like best. There's always awesome schools with mediocre or worse instructors. Have fun and let us know which you choose and how it's going for ya.
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