CrossFit Discussion Board  

Go Back   CrossFit Discussion Board > CrossFit Forum > Equipment
CrossFit Home Forum Site Rules CrossFit FAQ Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Equipment Outfitting a serious gym. Vendors & suppliers. Devices & equipment

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 11-24-2008, 04:48 PM   #41
Jared Grisham
Member Jared Grisham is offline
 
Jared Grisham's Avatar
 
Profile:
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Houston  TX
Posts: 158
Re: Smith Machine?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shawn Casey View Post
"Don't worry, you don't have to use a barbell, and when your done sitting on this nice comfy pad, paddling this bike in the recliner position while watching TV, you can come over here and do some 2 in squats in this machine that goes up and down in a straight line for you and locks so you don't need to rack it and here's some 5pounders to start you out with so you don't have to work hard. Of course not, you don't have to work hard. Ha Ha Ha, that's silly. Make sure you eat plenty of grape nuts after your work out". The rest of the world mimicks us so, they want to sit in the machine and squeeze there thighs together, too since that's what cool in California; That's what's jiggy on the streets. Hey, I got an idea, let's do pulldowns for the rest of our lives and never be able to do a pull up, ever, because there hard and the pulldown bar is padded and metal knurling makes my hands hurt. Another good idea, lets make a machine that mimicks a barbell but looks like a smith machine and suck more money out of the M&F world because they don't know any better and they do what we tell them.

Maybe I just believe in hard work, self control and responsibility a little too much. Smith machine represents none of that.


....Or maybe I'm just way out of line.
Thread over. You are awarded one internets.
  Reply With Quote
Old 11-24-2008, 05:05 PM   #42
Aaron Gainer
Member Aaron Gainer is offline
 
Aaron Gainer's Avatar
 
Profile:
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Macomb  MI
Posts: 693
Re: Smith Machine?

The smith machine doesn't understand biomechanics, hence rendering it useless except for a coat rack!!!!
  Reply With Quote
Old 11-24-2008, 05:06 PM   #43
John Biddle
Member John Biddle is offline
 
Profile:
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Brisbane  QLD
Posts: 139
Re: Smith Machine?

Drew - a WFS link posted on a thread under "Exercises" today (title something like "Exercises to avoid") that might be of use to you. I'm sure there are heaps of other links out there, but this one was just sitting there and easy to cut and paste!

http://www.diet-blog.com/archives/20...d_to_avoid.php
  Reply With Quote
Old 11-26-2008, 01:59 PM   #44
Shawn Casey
Member Shawn Casey is offline
 
Shawn Casey's Avatar
 
Profile:
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Bamberg  Germany
Posts: 435
Re: Smith Machine?

Justin that was a well mannered and civil response to my assholiness, touche'.
I still can't stand that giant parrot stand.
  Reply With Quote
Old 11-26-2008, 07:10 PM   #45
Justin Z. Smith
Member Justin Z. Smith is offline
 
Profile:
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Alexandria  VA
Posts: 390
Re: Smith Machine?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shawn Casey View Post
...
It's not that I hate the Smith machine itself, I hate the guy that's making money selling the Smith machine and...
BTW, I think Jack LaLane created it (and leg extension machine, and cable machine, and selectorized weight stack), and he accomplished a whole heck of a lot; one smart and fit dude, still! Doesn't he like CrossFit too and his nephew just opened a box?


Food for thought!


Justin
  Reply With Quote
Old 11-27-2008, 10:56 AM   #46
Shawn Casey
Member Shawn Casey is offline
 
Shawn Casey's Avatar
 
Profile:
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Bamberg  Germany
Posts: 435
Re: Smith Machine?

Yeah but he did gymnastics and you don't have to squat or leg extend or curl or crossover to swim or to do 1000 pullups or 1000 pushups.

I don't see people nowadays doing smith machine squats and then going over to a pole and doing a flag. They do SM squats then they go to the elliptical and then to the squat rack and put the bar on the rack and do 2in curls with the just the bar. Did he contribute to the stuff I hate? Sure he did. Was he already able to do crazy stuff? Yep. Do people do what he did? Nope. Did he know his machines would lead to laziness and bad knees? I'm pretty sure he didnt.

Food for thought.
  Reply With Quote
Old 11-27-2008, 05:26 PM   #47
Mark Martinez
Affiliate Mark Martinez is offline
 
Profile:
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Spangdahlem  Germany
Posts: 476
Re: Smith Machine?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shawn Casey View Post
Yeah but he did gymnastics and you don't have to squat or leg extend or curl or crossover to swim or to do 1000 pullups or 1000 pushups.

I don't see people nowadays doing smith machine squats and then going over to a pole and doing a flag. They do SM squats then they go to the elliptical and then to the squat rack and put the bar on the rack and do 2in curls with the just the bar. Did he contribute to the stuff I hate? Sure he did. Was he already able to do crazy stuff? Yep. Do people do what he did? Nope. Did he know his machines would lead to laziness and bad knees? I'm pretty sure he didnt.

Food for thought.
I think the Smith machine was devised, as a way to simulate various exercises under different loads. I used it when I didn't have a spotter because I was afraid of losing it. It helped build my confidence that I could indeed lift a certain load and thus I transitioned to a truly free weight thereafter.

The same can be said with ring pull-ups and muscle-ups. These things are pretty useless unless you're a gymnast. True they're a good test of strength; but, in the real world a wall doesn't warp or twist to your will while you scale it. What the ring pull-up or muscle-up does is give you the knowledge and confidence that you most likely have the strength and agility to scale a wall if you had to.

Let's face it. Most people start out at a spa or gym equipment. They start doing the crazier stuff only when they think they're fit enough.

I'm not condoning the Smith or Nuttyless equipment. Just food for thought.
  Reply With Quote
Old 11-27-2008, 05:44 PM   #48
Robert Callahan
Member Robert Callahan is offline
 
Robert Callahan's Avatar
 
Profile:
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Zzyzx  CA
Posts: 1,626
Re: Smith Machine?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Justin Z. Smith View Post
For example to name a few, things like front doors, cabinet doors, closet doors, non-electrical garage doors, dresser drawers, windows, table leaves, a merry-go-round, track lights, shower curtains, removing bowling balls from the return, extendable ladders, and using other strength training machines.
Ok so this is something that is starting to bug me. Just because something sort of mimics real world activities does NOT make it functional. A functional exercise is one that gets you very strong at many real world activities, it does not need to mimic them to do this.

Here is where your analysis is flawed. You take two athletes. Have one train smith machine squats, the other normal barbell squats. The one training barbell squats will be stronger and better able to do "front doors, cabinet doors, closet doors, non-electrical garage doors, dresser drawers, windows, table leaves, a merry-go-round, track lights, shower curtains, removing bowling balls from the return, extendable ladders, and using other strength training machines." than the one training with the smith machine, regardless of the fact that maybe the smith machine better simulates those things.

-Robert
__________________
"I swear by my life and by my love of it that I will never live for the sake of another man, nor ask another man to live for mine"
  Reply With Quote
Old 11-27-2008, 05:59 PM   #49
Justin Z. Smith
Member Justin Z. Smith is offline
 
Profile:
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Alexandria  VA
Posts: 390
Re: Smith Machine?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shawn Casey View Post
...
They do SM squats then they go to the elliptical and then to the squat rack and put the bar on the rack and do 2in curls with the just the bar.
I don't really care for hypothetical "they" arguments, so I won't respond specifically to that.

But I do know that people do all sorts of crazy stuff, Smith machine or no Smith machine. I know several people who still do freeweight lifts, even after freeweight lift accidents have severely reduced their bodily function. And runners who keep running after running has produced all their injuries.

Quote:
Did he know his machines would lead to laziness and bad knees? I'm pretty sure he didnt.
If people abuse a machine or get lazy it is obviously the person's fault, not the machine's. Blaming a machine is like someone blaming a fork because there are obese people who use forks.

Justin
  Reply With Quote
Old 11-27-2008, 06:15 PM   #50
Justin Z. Smith
Member Justin Z. Smith is offline
 
Profile:
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Alexandria  VA
Posts: 390
Re: Smith Machine?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Robert Callahan View Post
Just because something sort of mimics real world activities does NOT make it functional. A functional exercise is one that gets you very strong at many real world activities, it does not need to mimic them to do this.
There are many definitions of "functional". Mimicing is indeed the original definition, since the "functional training" stuff arose from a rehab environment. At times, CrossFit indeed uses that definition too. For example

http://library.crossfit.com/free/pdf...essConcept.pdf
(safe for work, family, etc)

Quote:
The body works together as a system and exercises that serve to de-construct what are essentially irreducible (though admittedly complex) movements, can create imbalance, unnatural stress on muscles and joints, do not generate an ideal adaptive response, and most importantly do not mimic the reality that the Marine athlete will experience.
It describes "functional movements" as ones that mimic the Marines' real life.

The second definition of "functional" is the one you mention above. But this second use is so broad and inclusive it can logically include things like bicep curls. For example, we use biceps all the time in real life since we have biceps in our arms, and bicep curls help make biceps stronger. So everytime we use our arms we can partially thank bicep curls for making part of our arms stronger. The second use is indistinguishable from just "strength training".

Quote:
Here is where your analysis is flawed. You take two athletes. Have one train smith machine squats, the other normal barbell squats. The one training barbell squats will be stronger and better able to do "front doors, cabinet doors, closet doors, non-electrical garage doors, dresser drawers, windows, table leaves, a merry-go-round, track lights, shower curtains, removing bowling balls from the return, extendable ladders, and using other strength training machines." than the one training with the smith machine, regardless of the fact that maybe the smith machine better simulates those things.
Well that may be with that hypothetical, I cannot say. Although if someone using method A is better than someone else using method B at a task, that is frankly irrelevant to saying if method B is useful at all or not.

What I did say was that *in addition* to doing freeweight squats, *I* do Smith machine squats for the reasons I listed. Lifting a freeweight barbell doesn't feel like lifting one on a track, because it is not on a track, and no amount of lifting a freeweight barbell will make it feel like it is on a track.

Justin
  Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Smith Machine? Jan Bester Fitness 31 09-29-2008 03:21 PM
Smith Machine Jason Gregg Exercises 9 09-17-2008 05:39 PM
Best use for a smith machine? William Winger Equipment 22 07-07-2006 06:49 AM
Smith Machine Phil Canto Starting 1 06-04-2004 08:36 AM
Smith Machine Phil Canto Equipment 0 06-04-2004 07:17 AM


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 11:57 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.8
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
CrossFit is a registered trademark of CrossFit Inc.