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Old 01-20-2010, 01:56 PM   #11
Gerhard Lavin
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Re: Rethinking post workout nutrition - Do you really need the carbs?

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Originally Posted by Leonid Soubbotine View Post
That research paper is based on a theory that CHO are critical.
Actually it's based on a study which is referenced.

Jacobs I, Kaiser P, Tesch P: Muscle strength and fatigue after selective glycogen depletion in human skeletal muscle fibers.

Eur J Appl Physiol 1981, 46:47-53. Publisher Full Text OpenURL
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Old 01-20-2010, 06:15 PM   #12
Leonid Soubbotine
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Re: Rethinking post workout nutrition - Do you really need the carbs?

http://www.biomedexperts.com/Abstrac..._muscle_fibers (WFS)

But what happens when you go beyond just the reference & read the actual study?

Does it really apply to CrossFit & especially Powerlifting/Strength training?
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Old 01-21-2010, 12:35 PM   #13
Drew Price
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Re: Rethinking post workout nutrition - Do you really need the carbs?

Looking to prof. sport may be a guide. The recommendations are slowly changing but this is a factor of the whole picture changing. An example: Amongst other things I am involved in nutrition in the premier football (soccer) league here in the UK. They were the classic example of the ultra high CHO picture but these diets are slowly evolving to more moderate macro breakdowns but crucially from better quality food however while the quantities required peri training may be reduced (glycogen is defended) the need to time carbohydrate is still high. This backed up on the pitch.

Increasing the proportion of fat in your diet will up regulate fax oxidation at the expense of CHO oxidation, in effect your carb stores will be defended but you will still need to use that carbohydrate when doing certain tasks. Of course, keep in mind strength training does not tax glycogen stores nearly as much as other types of training.

If performing metcons or endurance work multiple times a day you will need at least initially to have multiple feedings of preferably high II CHO for glycogen resynthesis yes but there's other factors such as speed of hydration whilst avoid diuresis etc. That may change as adaption occurs. If training once a day you may not want to worry, but I reckon it's worth thinking about - especially if other factors hamper your recovery.

CHO intake is aimed at when insulin sensitivity is high for a number of reasons some are behaviourable some physiological such as increased insulin sensitivity, but it's worth bearing in mind some research suggests that training (strength) in the short term can cause insulin sensitivity to be reduced after that 'window' and also that eating CHO&PRO peri training serves to keep it higher for longer.

Clearly the recommendations should take into account amongst other things:

Health (e.g. Insulin sensitivity)
Body comp and goals
Type and duration of activity
When and what they have ahead training wise

It's an interesting and for some contentious subject. Unfortunately it's not going to cure cancer or sell lots of drugs so there's not much money in it ans consequently not much research.

What there is is usually poorly designed (fasted subjects then trained using unrealistic protocols anyone?)...
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Old 01-21-2010, 12:41 PM   #14
Yahya Kohgadai
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Re: Rethinking post workout nutrition - Do you really need the carbs?

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Originally Posted by Eric Montgomery View Post
Robb's post-WOD nutrition posts also mention that low carb may have anabolic effects and help maintain insulin sensitivity for a longer period of time, and is the way to go if you're not already as lean as you want to be. He goes into the hows and whys of both low and high carb in this post (WFS).

The argument for high carb (aside from helping to pump nutrients into your muscles fast) is that it refills muscle glycogen that gets burned off during an intense metcon, which is mainly important if you're doing a two-a-day. If you've got a full day to recover before your next workout a high amount of carbs isn't as important.
Im glad you brought that up because I always wondered what the hell the importance of refilling the glycogen stores was..
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Old 01-22-2010, 06:48 AM   #15
Darryl Shaw
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Re: Rethinking post workout nutrition - Do you really need the carbs?

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Originally Posted by Leonid Soubbotine View Post
Darryl - the glitch with the paper you published is this:

That research paper is based on a theory that CHO are critical. Yet we know that being very low carb is indeed anabolic & can tremendously improve strength gains. That proves that article obsolete for it's based on a theory that seems to be quite wrong/unnecessary, at least in the case of strength training (which Louie is an obvious expert at).
It isn't a theory that carbs are critical for athletic performance nor is it a theory that reduced glycogen stores result in fatigue and an impaired ability to perform at high intensities, they're both well estalished facts.

Simply put, if you fail to replenish glycogen stores following a workout you will underperform during subsequent workouts and this will continue until glycogen stores have been replenished. If you intentionally maintain reduced glycogen stores over prolonged periods you will consistantly underperform which will lead to a loss of training adaptations ie. strength, speed, stamina etc.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Leonid Soubbotine View Post
http://www.biomedexperts.com/Abstrac..._muscle_fibers (WFS)

But what happens when you go beyond just the reference & read the actual study?

Does it really apply to CrossFit & especially Powerlifting/Strength training?
Yes.
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