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Old 05-25-2011, 02:21 PM   #11
Eric Montgomery
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Re: CF without a trainer

Well, what are your specific goals? Mainsite may or may not be the best choice to reach them. Either way, no one is holding a gun to your head and forcing you to go fast with sloppy form....you can always do relatively heavy power cleans or power snatches for relatively high reps where you take the time to set up correctly and use proper form on each lift. Oly lifts do have their place in metcons but it's gotta be within reason.

Front squats or OHS for time are generally ok provided the weight is within your limits. I'm not a big fan of heavy deadlifts for time though because they inevitably get sloppy, and sloppy deadlifts tend to result in back injuries.
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Old 05-25-2011, 02:26 PM   #12
Will Feber
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Re: CF without a trainer

My goal is GPP, maybe with a bit of bias towards strength.
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Old 05-25-2011, 02:33 PM   #13
Eric Montgomery
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Re: CF without a trainer

Then something like 70s Big S&C or GSLP might be a better option for you. Get stronger on the big lifts+program your own metcons to fit your goals and what you need to work on, while leaving out stuff that's likely to develop bad habits.
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Old 05-25-2011, 02:51 PM   #14
Will Feber
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Re: CF without a trainer

Thanks, Eric. Why 70s Big S&C or GSLP and not SS? Because SS wouldn't allow me to do metcons as well?

I read the article about CFSB in the journal and it says that the average novice should build strength easily with normal wods and that things like CFSB is only recommended for advanced athletes. Wouldn't the same apply of some combination of 70s big and metcons?

Is Conjugate CrossFit something you would recommend?

How would I combine one of those two with my own metcons? Just do a metcon after the lifting? Are there any other exercises I have to be careful with? I read once that kipping pullups should be learned carefully..

Last edited by Will Feber : 05-25-2011 at 03:21 PM.
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Old 05-25-2011, 03:21 PM   #15
Eric Montgomery
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Re: CF without a trainer

Correct, you can't do any metcons with SS and you stated GPP as one of your goals. GSLP and 70s Big work because they decrease the lifting volume to a level that you can still recover from it while doing a few conditioning workouts per week.

I'm not sure why CFSB is advertised as an "advanced" program. A beginner lifter (as determined by ability to adapt, not how much he/she lifts) has the potential to get very strong very fast on a strength-focused program that allows for regular progression on the basic lifts. It has been my experience that more strength, especially when combined with a relatively small amount of conditioning, will lead to much faster fitness gains than simply trying to out-metcon your way to faster benchmark times. I can PM you with specific numbers from my logbook or from what I've seen from people on 70s Big or GSLP if you want.

CF.com doesn't do the lifts often enough to see steady progression, so most of what you'll see in terms of gains there are novice effect gains. Yeah, you're seeing gains, but you're also not taking anywhere near full advantage of the time when you've got the most potential for rapid gains.

The issue with the kipping pullup is that too often it's prescribed at very high volume for people who lack sufficient shoulder stability or don't have the strength to do a fair number of deadhang pullups, and the excessive and repeated strain on the shoulder joint leads to things like SLAP tears or rotator cuff problems.
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Old 05-25-2011, 03:31 PM   #16
Will Feber
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Re: CF without a trainer

Is Conjugate CrossFit something you would recommend?

Do you know where I could find a template on how to combine 70s big/gslp with crossfit metcons? Couldn't find anything using google.

Thanks so much!

Last edited by Will Feber : 05-25-2011 at 03:48 PM.
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Old 05-25-2011, 03:48 PM   #17
Rebecca Roth
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Re: CF without a trainer

Quote:
Originally Posted by Will Feber View Post
Is Conjugate CrossFit something you would recommend?

Do you know where I could find a template on how to combine 70s big/gslp with crossfit metcons? Couldn't find anything using google.

Thanks so much!
Did you actually look at either of the programs? I can't speak for greyskull, but with 70s big its as simple as there being planned conditioning workouts on your schedule, so your crossfit metcon (metabolic CONDITIONING) would fit in that training slot.
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Old 05-25-2011, 03:57 PM   #18
Eric Montgomery
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Re: CF without a trainer

Look at the conjugate thread for information on that program but yeah, from what I understand it's a very effective program. I haven't done it because I'm a simpleton who likes to keep things basic, but I know Speal had some good results from it.

70s Big (check out the "effective, yet simple" thread) has conditioning workouts on Tues and Fri and an optional one on Sat, and GSLP has Weds and Sat conditioning workouts in addition to frequency method pullups, pushups, and burpees, which will have much the same effect. You won't find anything about GSLP on this board but it's available elsewhere.
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Old 05-25-2011, 04:51 PM   #19
Amy Larson
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Re: CF without a trainer

Wendler 5-3-1 also has a lot of flexibility with regard to conditioning. Just sub a metcon for hill sprints/prowler pushes/sled pulls. Or just do the sprints/pushes/pulls and get great results.
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Old 05-25-2011, 09:46 PM   #20
Charles Fey
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Re: CF without a trainer

I think DIY is a good option for some folks, and less so for others. To use an analogy: most of the time if you make dinner for yourself it tastes better than a comparable meal at a restaurant. But there are complicating factors to the idea of achieving satisfaction from cooking yourself, like an inability to cook, pressure for time, or the requirement to dine at home because you can't afford to pay the restaurant premium.

I'm firmly in the "can't cook" fitness camp, so an affiliate was definitely the right choice for me. Having someone tell me what to do and how much to do it is the best possible avenue for progress at this time. But in the future? Maybe DIY is best.

My only suggestion would be to carefully judge the situation and make the right choice based on an analysis that you're comfortable living with if you get hurt or make poor progress. Really evaluate your situation:

1. Can I afford to attend an affiliate? How often?
2. Do I need supervision or instruction, or does following orders suck?
3. Are there available coaches that I respect and can verify as qualified?
4. Can I stick to a routine I establish myself, or does a scheduled class improve my stick-to-it-iveness?
5. Does it make sense to have someone clarify the program in person, or can I understand it pretty well on the screen?

Etc. There are a lots of points to consider, but ultimately the only good decision is the one you can justify to yourself should things turn out poorly. I find that most decision-making systems are imperfect, but that decisions made based on a rubric you can live with hold up best.
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