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Exercises Movements, technique & proper execution

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Old 02-13-2014, 02:19 PM   #1
Travis Schliesser
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why exactly does a muscle up not count if the feet go above the rings?

Why is a muscle up no repped if the feet go above the rings? Is it a safety issue? Does it make it to easy? Is that a bad thing to teach someone trying to learn a muscle up? Thanks
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Old 02-13-2014, 04:17 PM   #2
Josh Groves
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Re: why exactly does a muscle up not count if the feet go above the rings?

They consider it to be a front uprise (I believe this is the correct term) at that point, which is a different gymnastics movement because you can roll into support from that position.
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Old 02-13-2014, 04:57 PM   #3
Michael Cook
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Re: why exactly does a muscle up not count if the feet go above the rings?

Here is what it says in the movement standards for muscle ups in the description of 13.3:

"In the muscle-up, you must begin with, or pass through, a hang below the rings with arms fully extended (with or without a ‘false grip’) and the feet off the ground elbows must be fully locked out while supporting yourself above the rings. Kipping the muscle-up is acceptable, but swings or rolls to support are not permitted. If consecutive kipping muscle-ups are performed, a change of direction below the rings is required."

Note that there is no mention - at least here - of feet going above rings as a way to distinguish between a kipping muscle up and a swing to support.

In a true front uprise on rings, your feet will go above the rings, and you push the rings back and out to the side, and keep your arms straight.
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Old 02-16-2014, 11:03 AM   #4
Christopher Morris
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Re: why exactly does a muscle up not count if the feet go above the rings?

There was a video about a year ago of a teenage girl who was showing promise in competition. It was kind of an up-and-coming highlight of her abilities. I've tried to find the video, but haven't had any luck. She was doing muscle ups by raising her feet straight up in front of the straps, pointing her feet to the ceiling, so high that her hips were about the level of the rings. She was nearly hanging upside down. Then she'd roll forward into the bottom of the dip. I'm guessing that this movement raises your center of gravity to make the transition to dip easier. After I saw the video I even tried a few muscle ups that way, but it didn't feel right to me.

The competition standard is aimed at removing this type of movement. I'm not suggesting there is anything inherently wrong with training that way, but it does change the movement away from an arm strength movement to a exaggerated kip emphasis, so it's not allowed in competition. I'm guessing the rule is to keep the movement of a muscle-up within a specific definition so it doesn't become a different movement.
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Old 02-16-2014, 11:55 AM   #5
Dakota Base
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Re: why exactly does a muscle up not count if the feet go above the rings?

The mechanical advantage of "kipping" that dramatically overwhelms the movement to make it null.

My wife was a gymnast growing up. She's very strong for a woman, but she's still not able to perform even a kipping muscle up. Not yet at least, getting closer every week.

BUT, if I tell her to go into a pike, she can. Easily.

It even kiiiiiinnnnndddaaaa looks like a muscle up movement, but it's clearly all momentum and leverage, not a muscle driven movement. She folds in half, feet above rings, then uses the swing/rotation when she comes down to swing herself up. Makes it look WAAAAAAY too easy.

One could argue that kipping is really the same thing, but comparatively, the proper kip won't have any "swing" element to it, for example, if you suddenly stop with your body straight. Whereas what she does to get up on the rings would CLEARLY swing if she stopped suddenly.
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Old 04-21-2014, 01:52 PM   #6
Christopher Morris
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Re: why exactly does a muscle up not count if the feet go above the rings?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Christopher Morris View Post
She was doing muscle ups by raising her feet straight up in front of the straps, pointing her feet to the ceiling, so high that her hips were about the level of the rings. She was nearly hanging upside down. Then she'd roll forward into the bottom of the dip. I'm guessing that this movement raises your center of gravity to make the transition to dip easier.
The standards video for Masters Regionals workout 2 gives an example of this no-rep type of muscle up. It gives some more information about why feet above the rings is a no-rep.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H_PThSJTKBA&t=1m5s (wfs)
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Old 04-22-2014, 02:21 PM   #7
Dare Vodusek
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Re: why exactly does a muscle up not count if the feet go above the rings?

Chris, was that girl Suzanne Svanevik?
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Old 04-24-2014, 10:58 AM   #8
Christopher Morris
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Re: why exactly does a muscle up not count if the feet go above the rings?

Nope. I looked up Suzanne Svanevik, and actually found a video of her doing muscle ups according to the standard (feet below rings).
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZtgHZtcA2k0&t=0m55s (wfs)

I did a little more digging and found the clip to which I had originally referred:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OnfrfKDC90U&t=2m15s (wfs) Look again at 3:20.
I'm not trying to knock her ability at all. It's just an example that doesn't fit within the competition standard of a muscle up because her feet are too high. The way she kicks her toes seem like the movement becomes a lot more kip and a lot less shoulder strength.

If HQ is making movement standards, and they want to draw a line in the sand somewhere, the feet and the rings are good reference points. With a ring movement up in the air, I can't really think of any different reference points that would limit the kip. Can you?
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