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Exercises Movements, technique & proper execution

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Old 08-26-2008, 08:21 AM   #51
James Besenyei
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Re: Are squats a practical strength movement?

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Originally Posted by Robert Callahan View Post
It does not appear that you read most if any of the posts in this thread my friend Read the quote from Rippetoe posted by Peter above and or my first post on the top of the second page. The statement that the front squat is the most "practical squat" because it is more similar to an every day use is just flat out wrong. The front squat does little to nothing to strengthen the posterior chain and has significantly less carry over to things like running, jumping, pushing, and pulling than the back squat does. How practical something is has nothing to do with how similar it is to every day activities, but how applicable the strength you gain is to every day activities.

This has all been addressed in previous posts though so if you want elaboration feel free to check them out

-Robert
Right on Robert. I read the posts. I just don't agree, that's all. Back squats are great. Front squats are great. Overhead squats are great. Squats are practical in general. I just happen to like front squats better. I can get plenty of posterior chain development from deads & power cleans.

Practicality can denote usefulness, experience gained through practice, being involved with specific work, something that is not elaborate and simply serves a very useful purpose, and probably a few other things. I would argue that a front squat is very practical as is a back squat, again I just: think/am of the opinion/have it in my head/believe/find- front squats to be more practical for: me/anyone who doesn't like or isn't good at back squatting (no you don't have to do an exercise if you don't like it!)/etc. That's all.
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Old 08-26-2008, 08:39 AM   #52
Anthony Militello
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Re: Are squats a practical strength movement?

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Originally Posted by James Besenyei View Post
(no you don't have to do an exercise if you don't like it!)/etc. That's all.
Really? Tell that to the guy in your avatar! hehe
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Old 08-26-2008, 08:47 AM   #53
James Besenyei
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Re: Are squats a practical strength movement?

The guy who doesn't lift weights anymore? O.K.

I get your point however Anthony. I mean we all have to push through or suck it up in life, and there is no doubt that back squats are key for athletic success in many, many arenas.

On the other hand I don't think that doing something you absolutely hate is beneficial if you've given it a solid run and still absolutely hate it. Are there exercises that suck that we should do. Hell yes. Is the back squat one of them. Generally, yes, I agree. I hate back squats and I suck at them, but I still do them--I do however do more front squats than back because I enjoy them more. For me this is good training. I think Warren will benefit from performing back squats. I also think that if he only does front squats and deadlifts he'll be fine for everyday life, as a matter of fact he'll be better off than most of the population.

By the way I find it really interesting that Fedor doesn't lift weights anymore, he trains like an animal though, an absolute animal.

Last edited by James Besenyei : 08-26-2008 at 09:01 AM.
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Old 08-26-2008, 08:59 AM   #54
Anthony Militello
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Re: Are squats a practical strength movement?

Really? Kettelbells are weightless now? Good to know, now I can throw mine away. And I also didn't know things like burpees (an exercise I KNOW most people dread) did not count as an exercise....Guess it's not because it's not becaues it does not involve lifting weights? Point is I'm pretty sure that "guy" would be the first to do something he hated if he know it would improve his performance in the ring....So go right on and DONT do an exercise just because you "don't" like it....

But yeah...I'm just sayin'...
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Old 08-26-2008, 09:18 AM   #55
Anthony Militello
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Re: Are squats a practical strength movement?

Agreed bud, just bustin' your chops. No hard feelings
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Old 08-26-2008, 09:31 AM   #56
Warren C Ellison
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Re: Are squats a practical strength movement?

Thanks for the good advice. I shouldn't have went on the defense with those ridiculous comments, but man you can only be called, weak and skinny some many times before you get ****ed.

I do understand the value of squat and I will continue to try and go up in weight, but at my on pace based off my health. However, I do think there were some very valid points made on both sides.
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Old 08-26-2008, 09:40 AM   #57
James Besenyei
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Re: Are squats a practical strength movement?

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Originally Posted by Anthony Militello View Post
Really? Kettelbells are weightless now? Good to know, now I can throw mine away. And I also didn't know things like burpees (an exercise I KNOW most people dread) did not count as an exercise....Guess it's not because it's not becaues it does not involve lifting weights? Point is I'm pretty sure that "guy" would be the first to do something he hated if he know it would improve his performance in the ring....So go right on and DONT do an exercise just because you "don't" like it....

But yeah...I'm just sayin'...
I didn't know Fedor trained with kettlebells still. I read an article saying that he had given up all weight training in favor of bodyweight training, hammers, and the such. And by weight lifting/training I was using the definition most commonly used in the US--barbells and DB's. I never said burpees don't count as exercise (if you're referring to my comments, if not please disregard). And you're right, that "guy" would do an exercise he hated to make him better in the ring. He's also a professional athlete who feeds his kids by fighting. Most people don't feed their family through their athleticism.

Good stuff Anthony.
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Old 08-26-2008, 10:44 AM   #58
Robert Callahan
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Re: Are squats a practical strength movement?

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Originally Posted by James Besenyei View Post
again I just: think/am of the opinion/have it in my head/believe/find-
Not to be rude but this is where the problem lies. You "feel" that front squats are more practical. Unfortunately just because you "feel" something does not make it true. That is why Human beings are capable of reason, so they can give logical, well thought out reasons for believing things to be true or false. In this situation the front squat is NOT as practical as the back squat because of the anatomy and physiology of the movement. It uses fewer muscles and almost completely leaves out the posterior chain. This means that the carry over effect of the strength you gain is significantly less from the front squat as compared to the back squat. Example time:

take two athletes similar in build and athleticism. One trains Back Squats, the other Front Squats. After several weeks of training both athletes are given a running and jumping test. The athlete that trained back squats will be better than the one that trained front squats.

I am not saying you have to agree with what has been said, but if you are going to disagree you must give reasons for it, not just that you feel it. This is true throughout all of life. Anyone can give an opinion, what makes people actually listen is the ability to make a logical, well thought out argument for why you are right.
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Old 08-26-2008, 10:49 AM   #59
Ed Haywood
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Re: Are squats a practical strength movement?

10-13 miles is a lot of running. Your legs adapt to such training by losing mass to become more efficient. When I was running that distance, I could not even squat 1xBW. Weak legs make the BS tough to do. When I tried squats with weak legs, I put excess stress on my back. I'm just working out of that now. As my legs have gotten stronger (and my form better), my back has been less stressed.

There are a lot of folks here who know way more about training than me, so don't take this as advice, just sharing my own experience. For me, it was helpful to start off with FS and OHS to strengthen my legs and stabilizers, while working on BS form with light weights, then gradually grow into heavier BS weights.

For me, leaping into heavy squats always resulted in failure due to pulled muscles, strains, soreness, etc. I define heavy as close to your 1RM. I'm on a 20-rep squat program, started absurdly light (50% BW), and am approaching BW now, and feeling pretty good about it. For a guy with long lanky legs, confidence under the bar doesn't come quickly, but it does come.

Also, the WOD warmup of 3x15 back extensions every day, over time, has worked great for strengthening my lower back and making my BS and DL more stable.

None of that addresses the OP question of "do I really have to do heavy squats." I'd suggest it just depends on your goals. After 25 years of running and other endurance-oriented exercise, I am finding my new leg strength makes my legs feel better and healthier, and makes me feel more confident in my overall athletic ability. I also find it gives me more kick in shorter runs (400-800m), and that my legs tire less easily when hiking in the mountains. I wish someone had kick-started me on squats when I was 15 or 20. YMMV.

Last edited by Ed Haywood : 08-26-2008 at 10:57 AM.
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Old 08-26-2008, 04:33 PM   #60
Robert D Taylor Jr
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Re: Are squats a practical strength movement?

"take two athletes similar in build and athleticism. One trains Back Squats, the other Front Squats. After several weeks of training both athletes are given a running and jumping test. The athlete that trained back squats will be better than the one that trained front squats." Robert Callahan post 58

Robert, that's just an example that you made up, it doesn't prove your statement. All of this is just opinion, if one estimates that BS effects can be equaled by FS and DL, and another estimates otherwise, so what? The OP wanted to know if BS were practical strength movwements, you feel they are others don't, both sides have been argued well. Saying that someone's feeling is just a feeling while your opinion is correct is not a legitimate stance.
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