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[Jamie J. Skibicki]

The closer to math you get, of course the amount of political and outside pressure there will be. Once you get above celluar biology, the landscape changes quickly.

[Jason R O'Dell]

Originally Posted by Ned Ferguson

Beck's take on the president's attitude toward whites is right on target. Becks problem with the president is his ideology, not his race. It is you who refuse to separate the two. Not only that, but this preoccupation with whites is endemic to the left ("typical white males", angry white men", the founders dismissed as "dead white men," etc.). Beck backs his assertions with facts: words from Obama's writings, his relationship with J. Wright, etc.

As I sit, the Obama justice department has spiked the prosecution of radical Black Panthers for policing polls with clubs and making threats to voters who might dare to vote for a "cracker.". A prosecutor has resigned in protest. These are facts, not supposition. I guess all these facts must mean that "Beck is a hater." Why do you refuse to see what is right in front of you?

To all: I think I am going to voluntarily withdraw because I do not see this thread going anywhere. I am surprised it has survived this long. I have enjoyed our debate. You now know what I believe and you are free to evaluate it as you wish. Despite what you may think, I love you guys and wish you all the best. - Ned

Hmm...no wonder we never agree. You're apparently ultra conservative whereas I'm anything but.

I also don't think the president has an anti-white attitude (at least not these days). That strikes me as conservative cop-out looking for a reason to hate the fact you lost the White House after enjoying 8 years of free rule.
I mean my dad was pretty liberal until 9-11 then suddenly he became as right wing as you can get and he just looks and hunts for reasons to hate the president. Hell he even went as far as to bash on him because Michelle Obama got off Air Force One wearing shorts and a t-shirt. He went on about how undignified that was and how wrong it was and used it as more ammunition to hate Obama.
And now I've taken this thread into the realm of politics and I feel it may be getting closed soon.

[Antonio Roca]

Originally Posted by Jamie J. Skibicki

The closer to math you get, of course the amount of political and outside pressure there will be. Once you get above celluar biology, the landscape changes quickly.

The closer to math we get, what happens? Political pressure increases or decreases? Is that what you were saying?

Whichever way you think it goes, would you mind elucidating?

[Jamie J. Skibicki]

THe closer you get to math, the more difficult it gets to apply political pressure as it gets harder to refute the studies. If you have a study a complex system (any research on animals or humans would fall into this), it becomes very easy to say you didn't account for this, or that, or the sample size isn't big enough, etc.

In Math and physics and computer science and alot of forms of engineering, you have a high degree of control over the system setup and can do pretty much what you want. And if someone disagrees, yu can just go run the same experiment.

In addition, most people aren't affected by the research in the hard sciences in a direct way.

[Antonio Roca]

Oh ok, that's what I thought you meant. Just checkin!

[Dimitri Dziabenko]

Originally Posted by Jamie J. Skibicki

In addition, most people aren't affected by the research in the hard sciences in a direct way.

This is true only for part of the hard sciences - the part done just for the curiosity of it. Other things do have an effect, though few people know about it "directly."

[Jamie J. Skibicki]

Dimitri,

You're going to have to provide an example. All of the research I was exposed to was at least one player down from the public, once the science is there, you still have to build the product.

[Dimitri Dziabenko]

Originally Posted by Jamie J. Skibicki

Dimitri,

You're going to have to provide an example. All of the research I was exposed to was at least one player down from the public, once the science is there, you still have to build the product.

I don't exactly understand your point, how would it be less than one player down? I was merely saying that the results of computer science/mathematics/biology etc.. do have very real-world applications. It's not all String theory and god knows what. CS = internet security, computer speed/algorithms, computation. Mathematics = discovering terrorist/criminal money transfers, improving any sort of quantitative system (weather predictions?), biology/chemistry = too many to list.

You just said this hard science research had no direct effect on anybody, yet the very computer you use is the product of theoretical research.

[Dimitri Dziabenko]

Originally Posted by Jamie J. Skibicki

Dimitri,

You're going to have to provide an example. All of the research I was exposed to was at least one player down from the public, once the science is there, you still have to build the product.

I don't exactly understand your point, how would it be less than one player down? I was merely saying that the results of computer science/mathematics/biology etc.. do have very real-world applications. It's not all String theory and god knows what. CS = internet security, computer speed/algorithms, computation. Mathematics = discovering terrorist/criminal money transfers, improving any sort of quantitative system (weather predictions?), biology/chemistry = too many to list.

You just said this hard science research had no direct effect on anybody, yet the very computer you use is the product of theoretical research, much of it at public universities or through public funding.

[Jamie J. Skibicki]

" CS = internet security, computer speed/algorithms, computation. Mathematics = discovering terrorist/criminal money transfers, improving any sort of quantitative system (weather predictions?), biology/chemistry = too many to list. "

My point is that faster computer algorithms don't affect my life, application which take advantage of them do. The process of detecting money transfers don't affect my life, arrests do. All of the things you mentioned are at least one layer (I mis typed last time) away from the general populace.

You rarely car whats under the hood, you care that your life is some how improved.

So if you read "researchers discover multi combination for solar luminensce collector" you don't really care. But, when Home Depot starts carring really cheap, efficient solar collectors that you can throw up on the roof, then you will.