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Old 02-25-2013, 02:33 PM   #31
Mark Boyle
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Re: 875 lbs squat in knee wraps only

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Originally Posted by Chris Mason View Post
Well, he squatted 1055 lbs for the all-time record at 198 lbs (yes, in full gear). He also benched 850 lbs at 198 and had a 2,630 lbs total at 198 lbs... All of those are all-time records. Say what you want about gear, but Frankl didn't get 800 lbs out of it... My point being if this other fellow donned all of the gear in the world I seriously doubt he could ever match that total. I have seen Frankl warming-up to bench in his shirt and doing a raw 545 lbs like it was AIR. The guy was the freak of freaks.

Oh, and he is bodybuilding these days. Hasn't competed in PL in some time.
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Originally Posted by Dana Rice View Post
To be honest, we have no idea what Frankl would of benched in competition Raw, with IPF judging/rules and no multiply gear. We can guess, but the strength curve is completely different. We don't really know. Would it of been better than Norris, probably - but also consider . . . Norris is drug free.

Also - I didn't know I was pitting Norris against hypothetical situations he would never compete against. Frankl never competed raw, weighs more than 198, and apparently is a bodybuilder now.

If that is the case, forget Norris - I am taking Ed Coan before his lifetime ban from the IPF.
I'm pro-IPF (I compete in the CPU), but I think it is silly to claim that Norris is drug free. He may be, but that certainly isn't known for sure (and I kind of doubt it). He does at least have to pretend and be ready to pass a test on meet day (does the USAPL do out of contest testing?), which probably is a factor. I'm also choosing to take Chris at his word regarding Frankl's 545 raw bench.

You do make a good point about weight that I missed. The IPF has a 2-hour weigh in, so guys in the 198 class would maybe way 205-210 normally (and Norris weighed in light, so he's probably not cutting at all). With the SPF's 24 hour weigh in, Frankl could weigh much more than that. I don't know what Frankl walked around at normally in 2009.
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Old 02-25-2013, 05:59 PM   #32
Stanley Walter
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Re: 875 lbs squat in knee wraps only

Wow.

He makes 600# look like 200# looks to me. Impressive to say the least.
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Old 02-25-2013, 07:07 PM   #33
Chris Mason
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Re: 875 lbs squat in knee wraps only

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Originally Posted by Eric Shuty View Post
Just wanted to point out what a joke SPF (squat partially federation) squats are....what is Frankl's best squat with real judging?
Do you mean real squatting like that Norris kid who is good morning up every squat? Is that real squatting? Listen, all lifters do what they can to get the weight up within the parameters of the meet. That argument is always a goofy one to me. Stick that kid Norris in the exact same gear and he would squat less, at least initially. Why? He would have to learn a totally different technique.
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Old 02-25-2013, 07:10 PM   #34
Chris Mason
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Re: 875 lbs squat in knee wraps only

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Originally Posted by Mark Boyle View Post
I'm pro-IPF (I compete in the CPU), but I think it is silly to claim that Norris is drug free. He may be, but that certainly isn't known for sure (and I kind of doubt it). He does at least have to pretend and be ready to pass a test on meet day (does the USAPL do out of contest testing?), which probably is a factor. I'm also choosing to take Chris at his word regarding Frankl's 545 raw bench.

You do make a good point about weight that I missed. The IPF has a 2-hour weigh in, so guys in the 198 class would maybe way 205-210 normally (and Norris weighed in light, so he's probably not cutting at all). With the SPF's 24 hour weigh in, Frankl could weigh much more than that. I don't know what Frankl walked around at normally in 2009.
There is a video of what I mentioned about Frankl's warm-ups somewhere.

I agree with you about the drugs. Drug tested federations have doped athletes.
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Old 02-25-2013, 07:11 PM   #35
Chris Mason
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Re: 875 lbs squat in knee wraps only

And that Norris kid is a beast to be sure!
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Old 02-25-2013, 07:13 PM   #36
Eric Shuty
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Re: 875 lbs squat in knee wraps only

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Originally Posted by Chris Mason View Post
Do you mean real squatting like that Norris kid who is good morning up every squat? Is that real squatting? Listen, all lifters do what they can to get the weight up within the parameters of the meet. That argument is always a goofy one to me. Stick that kid Norris in the exact same gear and he would squat less, at least initially. Why? He would have to learn a totally different technique.
I'm not talking about anyone v. anyone. I'm talking about traditional squats v. what SPF has allowed in the past few years. EVERYONE could squat more if they moved from full squats to what was done in that video. To me thats the problem. If they are going to judge that way they need to amend their rule book and change their standards. At least then they would admit there is a different standard in their federation...
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Old 02-25-2013, 07:23 PM   #37
Chris Mason
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Re: 875 lbs squat in knee wraps only

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I'm not talking about anyone v. anyone. I'm talking about traditional squats v. what SPF has allowed in the past few years. EVERYONE could squat more if they moved from full squats to what was done in that video. To me thats the problem. If they are going to judge that way they need to amend their rule book and change their standards. At least then they would admit there is a different standard in their federation...

You are wrong. Have you ever squatted in briefs and a suit? Have you ever seen someone who uses the squat style of Norris put on gear and try to squat? You have to learn how to squat in that suit. The optimal way to squat in a suit is not optimal for a raw squat. They are different techniques. In other words, your argument might hold if you had two lifters who did not bounce out of the hole and were both raw, but in this case you aren't making a valid comparison.
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Old 02-25-2013, 07:35 PM   #38
Eric Shuty
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Re: 875 lbs squat in knee wraps only

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You are wrong. Have you ever squatted in briefs and a suit? Have you ever seen someone who uses the squat style of Norris put on gear and try to squat? You have to learn how to squat in that suit. The optimal way to squat in a suit is not optimal for a raw squat. They are different techniques. In other words, your argument might hold if you had two lifters who did not bounce out of the hole and were both raw, but in this case you aren't making a valid comparison.
I have squatted in a suit and briefs....not denying that it is basically a different lift than a raw squat. Same goes for benching in a shirt and raw bench. I'm simply expressing my sadness at the continued (and some might say growing) acceptance of high squats. Whenever I see records set in that manner I don't get the sense of amazement I should get. I simply wonder what might have been had the lifter simply gone to parallel. The thing is, I'm not one of the ATG sticklers that abound. So for me to nitpick squat depth it is normlly blatant. I wish I would see less of it....
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Old 02-28-2013, 12:08 PM   #39
mike vinson
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Re: 875 lbs squat in knee wraps only

i competed from '83-'97 and went 1731@198 and 1830@220. i never had to "change" my squat when i put a suit on. i did 625 raw (singlet and belt) no knee sleeves and 730 when i put the suit and wraps on. 415 raw bench and 450 with the shirt. DL never changed because you only had a singlet. the frankly video is ridiculous, not the man but the rules, id probably done the same thing if it had been allowed. no one wants to walk out with a squat and go deep, it hurts. while im ranting, what's with the judge giving the press call before the bar settles? does raw now mean squat suit and knee sleeves? the norris kid will probably be a 242er someday and should be fun to watch. It would have been nice to keep the rules the same to compare the past and the now. oh well, i miss coan, hatfield, bell, latimer, cash, thomas, etc, etc...

Last edited by mike vinson : 02-28-2013 at 12:14 PM.
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Old 02-28-2013, 12:24 PM   #40
Chris Mason
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Re: 875 lbs squat in knee wraps only

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Originally Posted by mike vinson View Post
i competed from '83-'97 and went 1731@198 and 1830@220. i never had to "change" my squat when i put a suit on. i did 625 raw (singlet and belt) no knee sleeves and 730 when i put the suit and wraps on. 415 raw bench and 450 with the shirt. DL never changed because you only had a singlet. the frankly video is ridiculous, not the man but the rules, id probably done the same thing if it had been allowed. no one wants to walk out with a squat and go deep, it hurts. while im ranting, what's with the judge giving the press call before the bar settles? does raw now mean squat suit and knee sleeves? the norris kid will probably be a 242er someday and should be fun to watch. It would have been nice to keep the rules the same to compare the past and the now. oh well, i miss coan, hatfield, bell, latimer, cash, thomas, etc, etc...
Mike, guys did all sorts of things to get an advantage back then too... People love to romanticize the past, but the past is pretty much the same as the present.

As for the gear you were using, you certainly weren't using anything like what Frankl was using in that video if you only got 100 lbs out of the suit and knee wraps (and it was not available back then).
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